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Stoned Cold Dragon

the truth about christmas unknown by most who celebrate it

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Hey folks ,

well , i figured i toss a link and a cut and paste about the origins of Christmas . the stuff preachers/pastors rather you did not know. some/many of them don't even know themselves lol.

 

When i was a christian i stopped celebrating christmas because it was actually what i believed to be an abomnatuion to the god i loved .

 

i have since done alot more homework on the christian religion , so much so i couldn't remain a christian anymore cause it just was not valid . i all i really did was go backwards and also use comparative religious study for the most part.

 

so anyway I'm A non- religious Taoist now and can honestly say I don't know if a single entity called god exists at all ; but i do know it's not none of the ones folks IN ANY CULTURE PAST OR PRESENT have claimed to be a god .

 

http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/Chr...heRealStory.htm

 

 

I. When was Jesus born?

 

A. Popular myth puts his birth on December 25th in the year 1 C.E.

 

B. The New Testament gives no date or year for Jesus’ birth. The earliest gospel – St. Mark’s, written about 65 CE – begins with the baptism of an adult Jesus. This suggests that the earliest Christians lacked interest in or knowledge of Jesus’ birthdate.

 

C. The year of Jesus birth was determined by Dionysius Exiguus, a Scythian monk, “abbot of a Roman monastery. His calculation went as follows:

 

a. In the Roman, pre-Christian era, years were counted from ab urbe condita (“the founding of the City” [Rome]). Thus 1 AUC signifies the year Rome was founded, 5 AUC signifies the 5th year of Rome’s reign, etc.

 

b. Dionysius received a tradition that the Roman emperor Augustus reigned 43 years, and was followed by the emperor Tiberius.

 

c. Luke 3:1,23 indicates that when Jesus turned 30 years old, it was the 15th year of Tiberius reign.

 

d. If Jesus was 30 years old in Tiberius’ reign, then he lived 15 years under Augustus (placing Jesus birth in Augustus’ 28th year of reign).

 

e. Augustus took power in 727 AUC. Therefore, Dionysius put Jesus birth in 754 AUC.

 

f. However, Luke 1:5 places Jesus’ birth in the days of Herod, and Herod died in 750 AUC – four years before the year in which Dionysius places Jesus birth.

 

D. Joseph A. Fitzmyer – Professor Emeritus of Biblical Studies at the Catholic University of America, member of the Pontifical Biblical Commission, and former president of the Catholic Biblical Association – writing in the Catholic Church’s official commentary on the New Testament[1], writes about the date of Jesus’ birth, “Though the year [of Jesus birth is not reckoned with certainty, the birth did not occur in AD 1. The Christian era, supposed to have its starting point in the year of Jesus birth, is based on a miscalculation introduced ca. 533 by Dionysius Exiguus.”

 

E. The DePascha Computus, an anonymous document believed to have been written in North Africa around 243 CE, placed Jesus birth on March 28. Clement, a bishop of Alexandria (d. ca. 215 CE), thought Jesus was born on November 18. Based on historical records, Fitzmyer guesses that Jesus birth occurred on September 11, 3 BCE.

 

 

 

II. How Did Christmas Come to Be Celebrated on December 25?

 

A. Roman pagans first introduced the holiday of Saturnalia, a week long period of lawlessness celebrated between December 17-25. During this period, Roman courts were closed, and Roman law dictated that no one could be punished for damaging property or injuring people during the weeklong celebration. The festival began when Roman authorities chose “an enemy of the Roman people” to represent the “Lord of Misrule.” Each Roman community selected a victim whom they forced to indulge in food and other physical pleasures throughout the week. At the festival’s conclusion, December 25th, Roman authorities believed they were destroying the forces of darkness by brutally murdering this innocent man or woman.

 

B. The ancient Greek writer poet and historian Lucian (in his dialogue entitled Saturnalia) describes the festival’s observance in his time. In addition to human sacrifice, he mentions these customs: widespread intoxication; going from house to house while singing naked; rape and other sexual license; and consuming human-shaped biscuits (still produced in some English and most German bakeries during the Christmas season).

 

C. In the 4th century CE, Christianity imported the Saturnalia festival hoping to take the pagan masses in with it. Christian leaders succeeded in converting to Christianity large numbers of pagans by promising them that they could continue to celebrate the Saturnalia as Christians.[2]

 

D. The problem was that there was nothing intrinsically Christian about Saturnalia. To remedy this, these Christian leaders named Saturnalia’s concluding day, December 25th, to be Jesus’ birthday.

 

E. Christians had little success, however, refining the practices of Saturnalia. As Stephen Nissenbaum, professor history at the University of Massachussetts, Amherst, writes, “In return for ensuring massive observance of the anniversary of the Savior’s birth by assigning it to this resonant date, the Church for its part tacitly agreed to allow the holiday to be celebrated more or less the way it had always been.” The earliest Christmas holidays were celebrated by drinking, sexual indulgence, singing naked in the streets (a precursor of modern caroling), etc.

 

F. The Reverend Increase Mather of Boston observed in 1687 that “the early Christians who first observed the Nativity on December 25 did not do so thinking that Christ was born in that Month, but because the Heathens’ Saturnalia was at that time kept in Rome, and they were willing to have those Pagan Holidays metamorphosed into Christian ones.”[3] Because of its known pagan origin, Christmas was banned by the Puritans and its observance was illegal in Massachusetts between 1659 and 1681.[4] However, Christmas was and still is celebrated by most Christians.

 

G. Some of the most depraved customs of the Saturnalia carnival were intentionally revived by the Catholic Church in 1466 when Pope Paul II, for the amusement of his Roman citizens, forced Jews to race naked through the streets of the city. An eyewitness account reports, “Before they were to run, the Jews were richly fed, so as to make the race more difficult for them and at the same time more amusing for spectators. They ran… amid Rome’s taunting shrieks and peals of laughter, while the Holy Father stood upon a richly ornamented balcony and laughed heartily.”[5]

 

OF COURSE THERE IS MORE ON THAT SITE, AS WELL AS VARIOUS OTHER SITES TOO

 

So now if you are a Christian , YOU CAN NEVER SAY YOU DIDN'T KNOW & BLINDLY CONTINUE TO CELEBRATE A PAGAN HOLIDAY .....

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That was an interesting read man...

 

Don't let christmas stress drag you down; sadly, I find it difficult to follow my own advice. Smoke some good shit, and watch something funny that doesn't contain negative associations as part of the comedy (shit that makes you reflect on shit that you don't want to reflect on) - it's one of the only things that gets me through this time.

 

Make christmas what YOU want it to be.

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Oh well.. In Scandinavia xmass is still called Yule, the mid-winter feast where the pagans burn the sun wheel. In another explanation the freed Christians and Constantin the first choose the celebration on the date of the sun god Sol Invuctus. The xmass tree is probably and old German tradition to celebrate the midwinter around an oak tree.

 

One tradition that regretfully has been forgotten is the naked singing and dancing in the streets :welcome:

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We do call it for "Jul" Whazzup *LOL* . In Denmark its said that Jul was introduced to substutute the pagans winter solstice feast. I was about eating, drinking and whoring. We would give up that party, just because we had a new religion.

 

Anyway, talkiing about the bible, the fun thing about is how few people cares about who financed the editing and promotion of the Bible. A lot of stuff was edited out of the book and never mentioned later. That because Christianity is a constructed religion with a very specific purpose.

 

The job was commisioned by the roman emperor Constantion to substitute the wasteful religions of the old gods, with one that enabled the rulers to control and homogenise the citizens of their realms.

 

Look how burning witches and heretics was taken out of the faith when getting unpopular with the citizens. Religions must be challenged aswell as their dogmas in order to evolve and develop or they will still be the instrument and weapon of the rulers of the world.

 

But I am feasting and celebrating my JUL as had I been at devoted jule believer. Its not religion but tradition.

 

Anyway the Julemand aka Santa and the gnomes are certainly not coming from christianity.

 

Happy Xmass brothers

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That was a very interesting read. I thought it was also connected to Winter Solstice, the Druids made that a big celebration.

 

A bit cold to be dancing naked in Denmark... But maybe not if you drank enough! I don't know what's in the water in Denmark, but ya got some good looking people there.

 

 

For us, Christmas is a good excuse to let the people we love know that we are happy to have then in our lives!

 

Merry Christmas/Yule/ Good excuse for a dinner day everyone!

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We do call it for "Jul" Whazzup *LOL*

Yes I know but there is a genuine English translation for the word. In Dutch it's called Jul as well. In English it's the same as almost every city names you know, the Dutch town Den Haag in English is The Hague! Though some think that's a country in Scandinavia :welcome:

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Wait, you mean Haarlem isn't a place where the Apollo theatre is ?

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Sorry for getting involved here so late, but I had some time on my hands and thought to read some non MJ related threads.... unfortunately. lol Based upon growing, I respect you folks and Drag I harmonize with you on the Martial Art Vibe as well.

So when I saw this thread I had thought it likely to be equally enlightening <sigh>.....

 

Hey folks ,

well , i figured i toss a link and a cut and paste about the origins of Christmas . the stuff preachers/pastors rather you did not know. some/many of them don't even know themselves lol.

 

Just as a point of style... this comes off as rather arrogant and presumptive. It immediately establishes a bias against these "preachers/pastors" for being either nefarious or ignorant, largely. Clearly you have an issue here to so blatantly marginalize approximately 1/4 to 1/6 th the worlds population, but I applaud your propensity towards communication. As you can see I tend that way myself! lol. Okay lets continue...

 

When i was a christian i stopped celebrating christmas because it was actually what i believed to be an abomination to the god i loved .

 

i have since done alot more homework on the christian religion , so much so i couldn't remain a christian anymore cause it just was not valid . i all i really did was go backwards and also use comparative religious study for the most part.

 

For all your homework; it clearly gets revealed shortly that you cannot tell the difference between a Catholic or a Christian, thats okay, I made the same mistake when I was 16 and was embarking on a analysis of societal ... assumptions. I got turned off by the Medici's and the Borgea's and the overly political and usually immoral popes.... sorry I digress.

 

 

so anyway I'm A non- religious Taoist now and can honestly say I don't know if a single entity called god exists at all ; but i do know it's not none of the ones folks IN ANY CULTURE PAST OR PRESENT have claimed to be a god .

 

Wow, REALLY?? Dude, we gotta go back to that arrogant thing again.... lol.

Even if you are 80 it would be impossible to categorically state that you have conclusively ascertained that all Monotheistic through Pantheistic Religious practices are absolutely observed in ignorance and vanity.

 

 

......

I. When was Jesus born?......

 

A. Popular myth puts his birth on December 25th in the year 1 C.E.

 

...........

F. The Reverend Increase Mather of Boston observed in 1687 that “the early Christians who first observed the Nativity on December 25 did not do so thinking that Christ was born in that Month, but because the Heathens’ Saturnalia was at that time kept in Rome, and they were willing to have those Pagan Holidays metamorphosed into Christian ones.”[3] Because of its known pagan origin, Christmas was banned by the Puritans and its observance was illegal in Massachusetts between 1659 and 1681.[4] However, Christmas was and still is celebrated by most Christians.

 

G. Some of the most depraved customs of the Saturnalia carnival were intentionally revived by the Catholic Church in 1466 when Pope Paul II, for the amusement of his Roman citizens, forced Jews to race naked through the streets of the city. An eyewitness account reports, “Before they were to run, the Jews were richly fed, so as to make the race more difficult for them and at the same time more amusing for spectators. They ran… amid Rome’s taunting shrieks and peals of laughter, while the Holy Father stood upon a richly ornamented balcony and laughed heartily.”[5]

 

OF COURSE THERE IS MORE ON THAT SITE, AS WELL AS VARIOUS OTHER SITES TOO

 

So now if you are a Christian , YOU CAN NEVER SAY YOU DIDN'T KNOW & BLINDLY CONTINUE TO CELEBRATE A PAGAN HOLIDAY .....

 

 

Alas you summarize that Christians are responsible for the aforementioned events and morally duplicitous if they continue to observe this holiday. Why?

What relevance does the initiatives of centuries old political rulers to supplant one observance with another (birth of Christ - Winter Solstice) or Easter for Spring Rites (Paganism) or All Hollows Eve etc etc

It serves the purpose of Observance. Of acknowledgment of the birth of the Saviour of Christians.

For others it serves the purpose of reflection, rest, partying, pining and a myriad of other, human interests.

 

The admonition at the top is that RELIGIOUS discussions are not allowed and I am attempting to heed that statement. But seriously, Catholicism and Christianity are worlds apart. Their is no perfect practice of Christianity to be found but if you spend the time to find out the beliefs and teachings their ARE organizations that embrace those teachings....

I think you need to go back to school! lol

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I am very tempted to join the debate, as I disagree profoundly with your observations.

 

It is however a canasite, debating canna related stuff, so I ill respect the TOU and keep my arguments to myself.

 

Also I understand the reason religion and politics are unwanted here. You are christian. I am atheist all the way, and we ill never agree. So lets not start the debate.

 

At least not here.

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I am very tempted to join the debate, as I disagree profoundly with your observations.

 

It is however a canasite, debating canna related stuff, so I ill respect the TOU and keep my arguments to myself.

 

Also I understand the reason religion and politics are unwanted here. You are christian. I am atheist all the way, and we ill never agree. So lets not start the debate.

 

At least not here.

 

Name the forum. Disagreement is awesome, as long as it is informed.

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I am very tempted to join the debate, as I disagree profoundly with your observations.

 

It is however a canasite, debating canna related stuff, so I ill respect the TOU and keep my arguments to myself.

 

Also I understand the reason religion and politics are unwanted here. You are christian. I am atheist all the way, and we ill never agree. So lets not start the debate.

 

At least not here.

 

It also seems to me the debate got started in the 1st post... or at least the diatribe did... I attempted to make it a conversation...lol

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We only know what we have been told, weather it's the truth or not,! we will never know, and that's the secret of it,? it's called faith ,and the ability to believe in Santa Clause, or who ever :) .I dunno but there's something very fishy about religion all the lifes it has cost,and it all seems to be related to cash ??? hummmmmmmmm maybe there's alot that I still dont know about religion, except the fact that it has caused many battles and wars between humans,so know I believe in what I want to believe in, which is GANJA MAN <_< .I think it all boils down to FAITH and good Carma and to teach us good ways and how to love one another and to be a better person in helping others.There is also the other side,? that's when Cristian's/Catholics/Muslims or any other creed slaughtering each other :rolleyes: after preaching these nice things I dunno maybe if they had more GANJA it would have been better for them :P

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We only know what we have been told, weather it's the truth or not,! we will never know, and that's the secret of it,? it's called faith ,and the ability to believe in Santa Clause, or who ever :) .I dunno but there's something very fishy about religion all the lifes it has cost,and it all seems to be related to cash ??? hummmmmmmmm maybe there's alot that I still dont know about religion, except the fact that it has caused many battles and wars between humans,so know I believe in what I want to believe in, which is GANJA MAN <_< .I think it all boils down to FAITH and good Carma and to teach us good ways and how to love one another and to be a better person in helping others.There is also the other side,? that's when Cristian's/Catholics/Muslims or any other creed slaughtering each other :rolleyes: after preaching these nice things I dunno maybe if they had more GANJA it would have been better for them :P

 

I'm sorry, but I would have thought so too initially. But when you come into the presence of G-D, you know it. Faith is the belief in salvation, not G-D.

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G-D

 

 

What is this abbreviation? I've seen it before; what does it mean and why is it used and by who and for what reason?

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Srry for the offtopic guys,

 

E. The DePascha Computus, an anonymous document believed to have been written in North Africa around 243 CE, placed Jesus birth on March 28. Clement, a bishop of Alexandria (d. ca. 215 CE), thought Jesus was born on November 18. Based on historical records, Fitzmyer guesses that Jesus birth occurred on September 11, 3 BCE.

 

Am I the only one noting that awkward date or is it just me ?

 

Coincidence or is there more ?

 

If there is more, why 2001, or is that just a coincidence not thought over by those conspirisist nazi pricks.

 

Anyways, fun topic.

 

Kees.

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I'm with U on that one Kees <_< Some say September, some say November all I know is in December it's my birthday on the 23rd and then it's Xmass eve on 24th, and then Xmass day on 25th, and what a mity piss up smoke sesh it is :rolleyes: :P Well if U think about it December isn't that far away from November and September isn't too far away either so hell they nearly got it there

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Religions are just the first corporate structures.

 

 

Such cynicism is not indicative of an open mind....

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But is a sure sign of a sane mind, looking through all the lies and masshysteria caused by peerpressure from family and peers. I have never seen the slightest sign of any god, but see a lot of unsubstatiated fantasies.

 

An open mind would find to many inconsistencies in all religions, to make them divine.

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But is a sure sign of a sane mind, looking through all the lies and masshysteria caused by peerpressure from family and peers. I have never seen the slightest sign of any god, but see a lot of unsubstatiated fantasies.

 

An open mind would find to many inconsistencies in all religions, to make them divine.

 

You definitely have issues with it, thats for sure. So, with such crystal clear certainty, and a perspective that sees anything but atheism as insane... why even bother enter these issues? Clearly only sane and insane people have a perspective and who could possible reason with an insane person? Otherwise you'd need to acknowledge your arrogance as emotional as opposed to rational and rethink your position.

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What I find arrogant is the idea that statesponsored religion make up a lot of unsubstantiated claims, and the followers present them as facts. Even 2000 years and a lot of revision later. I find it hilarious that the followers change the meaning of the religion so it fits them and the timeperiod they are living in.

 

What I mean is a few hundreds years ago people were killed for being apostates. Lots of good innocent people were tortured and killed in the name of christ or today muhammed. Just because they were as you put it "arrogant"...how arrogant is it you are, or others with a faith with smilar inheritence. They found the religion unfounded and divisive and did not buy the bull. So in order to kepp the rest of the followers from straying from the path the set terrible violent examles for the other to see. That organised evil, in my opinion.

 

I detest being flashed "GOD" or Jesus as if it was something I should respect or even submit too. If I tell my honest view to believers they feel offended......how come they dont see that just talking about thir religion is just as big an affront to non believers as us telling others of the lies and fantasies we find in the bible among other things. Why should I respect christ, muhammed or the idea some people hold that a god exist when their beief has killid millions and millions and has denied lots of people the rigth to do what the want, finding arguments in a dead book.

 

In the end if there were just the tyniest slightedst little bit of evidence for any gods existence, I would be less irritated, but there is none absolutely none.

 

Then the arrogance of the church, the arrogant view on other faiths and superstition. How much respect do followers of Santa get, how serious are their faith taken ? Not very...the tooth fairy...the god in stones and water...I often hear christians laugh at other primitive religion, as if they were less stupid them selves....

 

all religion have one thin in common.....that they know all the other ones are wrong and they are right....so how do I differ....Well I dont come up with another lie or fantasy to relace the old one....I use the scientific evidence to form my opinion...and until today, there has been no sign of god..at all...no proof no evidence....all fantasy or faith as its called.

 

Anyway...how come most people inherit their faith form their parents and peeers and that they dont find one of the other thousands of gods more credible ? Brainwashing is the answer

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you know what guys ;)...the pope and cardinals are Pedophile!

check out what happens in germany at the moment....

wehre is ya pope from? Regensburg..there are tons of sexual victims in regensburg, most of them from "Regensburger Domspatzen", thatz were ya lovely pope worked before to with his brother georg (priest and musican)!

 

first it started with few sexual victims...now over 30 000 people brought a charge(all sexual victims) against high ranked church leaders...remember, 30k did it..imagine how many adults just won`t all the truble which comes with reporting such stories. 5 Kids per Priest = 6000 Priests did it? accident? you deice.

ever heard about cheastnut ball? an event were church elites are celebrating theirs achievements, guess which? they even have a price for the one who focked the most! (and can prove it)

 

c`mon people....vatican could turn the whole third world into equal civilisation like eu just from few years of income (billions), but thats not the goal they are looking for.

 

biggest and best organized mafia in this world, vatican.

 

greetz

chu

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you know what guys ;)...the pope and cardinals are Pedophile!

check out what happens in germany at the moment....

wehre is ya pope from? Regensburg..(me too btw), there are tons of sexual victims in regensburg, most of them from "Regensburger Domspatzen", thatz were ya lovely pope worked before to with his brother georg (priest and musican)!

 

 

chu

 

You do understand there is a difference between a Christian and a Catholic??

I refrained from responding to Satyr's post due to the fact that I cannot reason with a bigot. I'm hoping you, Chu, can at least see the difference between a movement and a institution that was formed 290 years (+/- a few years) after the Crucifixion.

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i hate to bring an old topic back up but this was very informative but im with saytr on most of what he says.

 

but we all can find this true. "to you be your way and me mines." so long as we dont impose our views on others

lets lead by example and when someone is intrested in your approach then give what you believe should be said in that moment.

 

good day to all

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