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Nutrient Formulas

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thanks focal,

 

also wanted to add something interesting i learnt recently.

 

if you want to make a balanced compost tea with a good fungal content, you can prepare a soil fungus sample to use in your tea by doing the following:

 

get some breakfast oats, NO SUGAR ADDED. get some good compost or worm castings or even some good rich garden soil (not manure!).

 

put soil/castings/compost or combination of the above in a small pot. add oats and mix into the top 1cm. water with dechlorinated water only. put in dark place and seal with black plastic to keep humidity in and light out but poke some holes for it to breathe.

 

check on the stuff at least once a day - more if possible. wait for fluffy white stuff to appear all over the surface. wait for it to get nice and thick then take a piece and put into your aerated compost tea.

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good to know people are reading this info :o

 

here is some info about making Lacto Bacili cultures :o :o B)

 

Lacto Bacilli

Is one of the major beneficial indigenous microorganism and is tremendously important. This particular beneficial microorganism is popularly used in a type of composting called Bokashi. Bokashi is a method of composting household waste very rapidly and without foul odors associated with anaerobic decomposition. Lactic acid bacteria thrive and feed on the ammonia released in the decomposition normally associated with foul odors, it can also be used to create fertiliser from fish tank waste, via denitrification, which is rich in ammonia, into nitrogen rich fertiliser. So if you need to decompose or ferment wastes with little or no foul odors, in weeks rather than months, the lactic acid bacteria is the specific bacteria to use.

 

Its application in organic farming is enormous, particularly in Thailand. Spraying diluted solution of lactic acid bacteria serum to the plant and soil helps plant growth and makes them more healthy. As it is applied to the soil or the leaves, these beneficial bacteria aid in the decomposition process, thus allowing more food to be available and assimilated by the plant. Lactic acid bacteria is also known to produce enzymes and natural antibiotics also.

 

Collection

Lactic acid bacteria can be collected from the air around you in a few ways;

 

 

1. Pour rice wash (solution generated when you wash the rice with water) into a container like plastic pot with lid. Allow an air gap of at least 50-75% of the container. The key here is the air space. Cover the container with a lid very loosely. Put the container in a quiet area with no direct sunlight. Allow the rice wash to ferment for at least 5-7 days. Lactic acid bacteria will gather in 5-7 days when temperature is 20-25 degrees C. Rice bran will be separated and float in the liquid, like a thin film, smelling sour. Strain and simply get the liquid. Put this liquid in a bigger container and pour ten parts milk. The original liquid has been infected with different type of microbes including lacto bacilli. And in order to get the pure lacto bacilli, saturation of milk will eliminate the other microorganisms and the pure lacto bacilli will be left. In 5-7 days, carbohydrate, protein and fat will float leaving yellow liquid (serum), which contain the lactic acid bacteria. You can dispose the coagulated carbohydrate, protein and fat, add them to your compost pile or feed them to your animals. The pure lactic acid bacteria serum can be stored in the refrigerator or simply add equal amount of crude sugar (dilute with 1/3 water) or molasses. The bacteria will feed on the crude sugar, keeping them alive at room temperature.

 

2. In a 500ml jar, mix 2 cups of water with 1 teaspoon of ground ginger and 1 teaspoon of sugar. Then add 1 teaspoon of ground ginger and 1 teaspoon of sugar, stiring gently, each day for 7 days. Within 2-3 days the starter should be quite bubbly, this indicates that Lacto Baccilli is active in the mixture. Once the starter is bubbling you can stop feeding it and use milk to isolate pure Lacto Bacilli from your wild culture. Lacto Baccilli will profilate and carbohydrate and fat will float leaving pure lacto serum which can be filtered and saved by passing the solution through a coffee filter, saving the yellow serum. The pure lactic acid bacteria serum can be stored in the refrigerator or simply add equal amount of crude sugar (dilute with 1/3 water) or molasses. The bacteria will feed on the crude sugar, keeping them alive at room temperature. More information can be found here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/11062883/How- ... oorganisms

and here:

http://www.permaculture.org/nm/images/u ... anisms.pdf

 

So.... What can we do with this Lacto Bacilli culture?....we can make...

 

Bokashi

Bokashi composting may be the next big “growth” industry in the world. Unlike traditional composting in which plant materials are stored in a bin and turned from time to time while the organic matter breaks down into soil over several months, Bokashi composting is a much faster process. All food waste—including meat, bones, dairy, bread and just about anything edible can be put into a bucket and “pickled” with a sprinkle of Bran or Newspaper that has been treated with Lacto Bacilli. The bacteria effectively "eat the waste" turning into very high quality composted materials, all in a few weeks, without causing odour and in a bucket that can be kept under your kitchen sink. More information on bokashi is available here: http://bokashicomposting.com/

 

Bionutrients

In the creation of biological nutrients, bionutrients, we are fermenting our own nutrients from plant materials. The fermentation process is a better system for extracting the nutrients from plant materials than boiling the plant materials, through infusion like making tea as the heat can degrade the nutrients we are looking for.

 

Some plant materials such as Seaweeds are naturally fast growing and known to be very beneficial to plant growth. However, due to their tough nature it is difficult to extract the beneficial elements effectively by boiling or pressing. If we ferment the plant materials by adding crude sugar or molasses, alongside BIM, the plant material is easily broken down (biologically) by the microorganisms, thus making nutrient more available.

 

In making bionutrients, the simple formula is to add 1/3 crude sugar or molasses and mixed with materials to be fermented and extracted. For example, let’s take cucumber fermented extract. Cucumber is fast growing and has a high level of Auxins that would be beneficial to flowering. We chop as thinly as possible ripe cucumber, unwashed and unpeeled. Add 1/3 crude sugar or molasses to the total weight or approximate volume of the plant materials. Put the materials with at least 50-75% air gap and cover loosely lid and let it ferment for at least a week. Add some Lacto Bacilli culture and after a week, you will notice some molds and microbial infections and will start smelling sweet, sour and alcoholic. The materials are then strained and liquid generated will be your pure cucumber extract. You can dilute this extract with 20 parts water. This diluted form can be used as bionutrient, using 2-4 tablespoons per gallon of water.

Any plant material can be fermented to extract its properties in this way, here is a brief list of one’s that I have found to work very well:

 

Comfrey: A well known natural fertiliser, high in both calcium and phosphate and very high in potash with some iron and manganese and a trace of cobalt

 

Cucumber/Squash/Watermelon/Zucchini/Courgette: due to the fast growing nature these have high concentrations of natural growth hormones Auxins. Great for flowering.

 

Fish scraps: High in nitrogen. Fermenting instead of using fish emulsion has the benefit of reducing foul odours. Also high in amino acids.

 

Coprameal/Linseedmeal/Soybean High in nitrogen.

 

Alfalfa Meal High in Triaconatol, the active ingredient in SuperThrive.

 

Banana High in Potassium (K) and beta carotine.

 

Carrot High in beta carotine, vitamin A and potassium. Contains vitamin C, vitamin B6, thiamine, folic acid, and magnesium.

 

More information can be found here: http://www.permaculture.org/nm/images/u ... anisms.pdf

 

once you go organic, and do it properly, there is no turning back :o

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good to know people are reading this info :o

 

here is some info about making Lacto Bacili cultures :o :o B)

 

 

 

once you go organic, and do it properly, there is no turning back :o

 

You're right about organics Oldbootz, almost every gardener in my country is turning this way. :o

About Lacto Bacilli I've done it several times myself but only found it interesting for bokashi.

Now I still have to find some good Eisenia foetida to feed them with. I'm sure that a wormcasting done that way would be great. :o

About Comfrey, Nettle and Alfalfa I'll still have to wait a couple of week to collect some in the fields around here.

The only few things I miss are Azomite and Fulvic acid cause they're not available in my neck of the woods.

Happy w-e to all.

 

Peace

 

PS: sorry for hijacking this thread

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It's not hijacking if you are on topic Weedsiti. I appreciate the info and I am sure many others trying to find their footing in soil will find your info to be just what they are looking for.

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Dont know if ive posted here, but my most productive nute rrgime is canna coco and ocean forest fox farms soil mixed 50/50, then 5 ml of.cannazyme with 10ml or more of canna a and b. This grow ive afded in the perfect start, mhyccro and buffer tabs from sannie. This is the easiest, quickest best producing shit ive ever used

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This is my first grow and I chose Humboldt Nutrients Master A & B (Hydroponic) feeding schedule. Before I go further I need to mention my lack of knowledge concerning biologicals in a recirculating hydro setup. I have been battling algae nasty crap from week one. After talking to the Humboldt guys they said, oh well don't use anything but Master A & B and Ginormous. Of course now I own a bunch of crap I don't need.

 

Ok so I accept my responsibility with regards to what I put in my tank. I just so happened to notice little floating nasty crap in both Master A & B. When I spoke to the Humboldt guys I specifically asked about nutrients going bad, their response was no that never happens and not to worry about it. I purchased the nutrients at a fairly busy local hydro store so you would expect the nutes to be good at least fresh. Of course they replaced my nutrients only to have the same problem. I have been changing my reservoir at least once a week and sometimes more.

 

My experience has not been a good one. I know others will have no problems especially in soil. I definitely do not recommend HN for recirculating hydro. I just happened to score some House and Garden Aqua Flakes. My first impression was how clean HG appears vs. HN.

 

I know this is just one example, and many others will have good results with HN it just wasn't right for my system. I was at a indoor gardening expo this last weekend and there were quite a lot of nutrient guys pushing biological stuff. If only I used their product with the right schedule and suppliments they would fix me right up, no thanks.

 

Just my 2 cents,

 

Skoman

 

 

Yo skoman, I had those issues with that type of setup....the water gets too warm, so a chiller was used. Gotta remember the nutes are reactin so algea can easily form

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I'm also running the tabs again. I tried to use Pura Vida and weekly compost teas but the growth rate and yield were so much less than I was used to. The tabs seem to give plants similar vigour to chem ferts. I'm now on my 4th organic grow and the tastes are different but not better than properly grown chem ferts.

I'll be going out of town and am going go set up a water drip system with the tabs. You cant automate a compost tea based grow. I like to take time off and not be a slave to the grow.

I expected the difference in organics to be really huge from the descriptions. It's not. With ferts you can manipulate the flavors and I'm not sure that happens in hydro. I'm trying blueberry again organic. In hydro I was able to dial in the flavor. I'm now using molasses a bit more to see what that does. Also doubling the dose of budswel from 5ml to 10 ml per gallon.

I may go back to Sannies tabs because I don't have to be a slave to the grow. I have other things in life I enjoy and spend enough time with the plants as it is.

Great thread!

 

Still have 4 gallons of gh.

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Joker

this is the dial in 411 that came from that PHISH Freak,

since i have no idea if yall discuused it. here it is, maybe it will help you with her. as you know it's my favorite to.

 

With the BB, you gotta feed it hard. We grow in potting soil/perlite/vermiculite/styrofoam in containers. When you start applying ferts the BB needs them every feeding. You basically keeping bumping up your ppm's and really never drop them from their max level unless the leaves say so...which they shoudln't if your mix is airy enough.

 

It wan't as much food each time as it got the last. Feed veg ferts unil the end of stretch which is likely 3 1/2 to 4 weeks. Sure, you should probably tapper off a bit on the veg ferts, mixing in the bloom as the stretch ends, but don't eliminate the veg nutes until 4 weeks are complete. At the start of the 4th week.....if growing in soil......USE GUANO! Indonesian guano seems the best because it only has .05 N and 12 P. Honestly you can apply the guano to every gallon of solution applied...maybe go heavy one day...light for next 3-4...then heavy again..but always throw that shit in there! While still keeping the general bloom ppm's high, keep throwing guano in there.

 

Do this until the end of week 7, probably a good idea to start goign a bit lighter on everything during week 7, but DO continue this feeding at some level until 7 is finished. Flush for 8, straight water....you can pick her 56-59 days for the "OMG, this is some of the strongest stuff" type high. It TOTALLY can be chopped at 52-55 days though...but I wouldn't recommend it. Just follow the feeding I suggested, working her to come down at 56-59 days. That's what we want from the Blue anyway...put you on your ass.

 

a good finished indoor BB run is near impossible to carry around with you. The actuall Blueberry smell will only be enough to comment on if it's let finish...dried slow..cured well. Still a normal dry session with BB will provide some of the nices bud around. It's funny thouhg..the bag appeal isn't what you'd think...it doesn't look as good as it is usually. But it smells, tastes and fucks you up as good as it should. lol

 

take care, brother

 

i was instructed to save this 411 and i did. dug it out of my notepad it was in hiding. ;)

 

more was said but not really realted to dial in so i edited it. i didn't change his spelleing though so it is what he said lol.

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Thats interesting but of no use to me as I am growing organic.* Edit just reread that and it is interesting . Basically peaking nutes in week 5 and tapering off, no flush. I've been taking it between 56 and 63 days.*

I've been growing the BB for 4 years with chem ferts and am pretty sure I'm dialed in.

For an organic bloom boost I use Budswel which is bat and seabird guano tea. I've also made may own

On my last round of organic Pure Kush without tabs, I gave a half dose of Koolbloom in week 5 and it worked well.

This round I will do the same. I have about $200 in ferts left and want to use them up. Even a single dose made a significant boost.

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who's BB do you have Joker. Is it avalible for purchase by a trusted distributer? I have always loved some good Blue berry but have heard about alot of shoty genetics being passed off as BB.

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You can view the weekly GH Flora Series feed schedule I use here-

 

http://www.420genetics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3681

 

It's a bit outdated, I use R.O. water, but the numbers all work out the same, and it's even better with R.O. IMO. I don't use any additives except MOAB. Tried all the GH additives, was just a total waste of money and time. (Fortunately it was free since I was testing for the Mad Farmer heh heh heh ;) )

 

Floralicious - I have not seen any improvement in yield. Just makes the flowers artificially sweet. Not my thing. I prefer the natural unadulterated terpene profile of the plant to shine through, not an artificially sweet one. Most additives aren't worth the money. I use the MOAB because it's my friends company, I helped test it, and I know how and when to best use it, and it rocks.

 

AN Nutes - Not worth the money. Good results if you use all their additives and boosters etc, but it's 4-5x more expensive than GH (even with all the GH additives) per crop for a 100 gallon reservoir. Double the yield? Yea fucking right. HAHAHAHAHA

 

GH FloraNova - Great 1 part nutrient. If you use the bloom at 8ml per gallon, it is virtually identical to the Lucas formula. Great for soil or soilless applications, and probably the easiest nutrient to use. This is what I teach all my patients to use for their first few grows until they get a feel for the plants. Only negative to it, is it seems the nutrients "hang out" a little longer than the GH 3 part. So you gotta flush for a min of 2-3 weeks to get that clean white ash.

 

 

The organics vs mineral ferts and flavor thing, well IMO that's a myth. I have grown organic many times, and you all know I do hydro. Have done both side by side, and when both are flushed properly, the flavor is the same. I have friends that no longer argue the organics thing with me after taking the "Pepsi Challenge" (a blind taste test).

 

That said, the best method of growing, the best fertilizers to use etc, all come down to what works best for you. There is no one right way to do things. There are infinite paths that all lead to a bountiful harvest at the end.

 

 

Cheers

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Focal x Issues: It's from DJ Short and it's an old cut. But you can get very good representation from Joey Weed who has f2s of DJ's older stock.

 

Useless: I'm on the fence about organics. Smooth for sure. Easy too, nearly fool proof. But I spent a few years messing with the blueberry and I have that flavor dialed in with chem ferts. We'll see how the tabs do this round.

I think I may do a cab grow that is GH 3 part just to see. I have 9 Blueberries in the flower room that are being grown organic with Sannie's tabs, Pura Vida and budswel. When using the tabs 1/4 - 1/2 strength nutes are all you need after the tabs begin to wear out. Will not be using the aggressive two part formula, but the single part formula with the tabs this time. Sannie's bacto or Compost tea every two weeks. Great White Mycchos were added with each up potting. I'm doing my own thing with stuff I have around. Hygrozyme with every watering.

 

I will grow 2 Blueberries in a cab that will be GH 3 Part, Budswel and Koolbloom ( need to use that up) and see what the flavor difference is with a two week flush. Organic vs. Chem taste test with a strain I know very well.

 

Soil is promix hp with 25% worm castings and 25% perlite. I've used this soil already, so it just got some more worm castings. After letting it sit in a 3 ml black garbage bag , all the roots from the last grow are nearly gone.

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Thats the medium I am using as well Joker. what is your formula and how do you feed ( every time you water do you feed)? And thanks for the spot on the BB, I hope to make it to denver this summer and if I cant find a repitable clone I will probly buy the seeds.

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Well... For soil less, I'm using a simple , basic formula. Veg3-2-1, Transition 2-2-2, Bloom 1-2-3. The numbers are ordered Grow, Micro and Bloom. 1 equals 5ml for three gallons (13.6 Liters). I use ph down at a rate of 2ml per gallon (4.5 liters). I start the plants and veg them with a ppm of 600 to start. In flower it gets bumped up to 8. If using Koolbloom I've done it in week 3 and 7 of flower and also just in week 5 . Depending on the strain , ppms in week 5 are between 800 and 1200 ppm. If not using Koolbloom Powder or MOAB , I like using budswel. It lowers the ph so no need for ph down. I've used it in hydro at a rate of 5ml per gallon, but am trying it at 10ml as it's effects in soil less are weaker than hydro. In week 6 the ppm drops to 6 or 800 depending on the strain.

 

I've kept nutes going in week 7 or just used budswel with nothing else for week 7 , then plain water until harvest . I've used

clearex in the flush and I've just used plain water. 10-14 days of plain water minimum.

I got that formula from a poster with the handle Hygrade and did variations. You can Adjust gh flora series. The old booklet they had , had a weekly adjustment that really boosted the Bloom in late flower.

He added 1tsp per 3 gallon epsom salts for Magnesium. In hydro that did not work for me, but maybe in soil. I use CalMag Plus at a rate of 2.5 ml per gallon. Some

Strains like Chemdog D, need it full strength.

I'm new to soil less, so I'm still figuring it out.

I can't find my camera... But will post the results of the organic vs. Chem ferts Blueberry grow. I'll post that in my thread.

 

I would like to see more organic growers. Do plants organically grown in large containers do better than smaller pots?

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I thiought thats what he meant. That is a pretty deluted mix at 5ml per 3 gal. I have been using useless's GH formula and I have been watering in between waterings, but have yet to get finish a plant with it. I will give jokers a try because it seems pretty safe. It would be super simple to remember what the previous watering mix was, some times I forget if a plant had nutrients or plain water before. Plus I do progressive so I have plants at different stages in both veg and flower, so only having to deal wtih fewer mixes would be a plus.

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I will edit that post. Stoned again.

 

In hydro I ran the ppm's way higher, but when I tried that in soil less it made harsh smoke and the plants burned. So I backed way off.

 

You can also keep giving veg ferts two weeks into flower and see a significant increase in yield.

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i had planned to do the veg ferts like that joker, some folks it like that on OG & PG AS WELL AS MANY OTHERS PLACES( caps lock oops).i'll have to decide exactly how i'll do the kool bloom on the 1st. try. only have 4 oz. to use. and i copied application rate 411 from them too.

 

my nutes will be simple 1 part style. so not a lot for me to do. i still have to contact dutch master on their one formula for coco use. it says all mediums, but i wanna have them make that clear. cause i think it was meant to compEte with CNS-17 imho. anyway.

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My truncheon has both. I use it because it's the markings easier to read on the wand/meter.

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can anyone explain to me why in the US many are using ppm instead of ec?

 

You might as well ask why we still use the imperial measurement system instead of metric. ROFL.

Answer - Because some American thought it up and because it's an "American" idea, it must be better than any other system used, even if it is 3x more complicated and much less accurate. ;)

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PPM and EC are one in the same guys. In other words a EC level of "x" will equal "x" amount in PPM (Parts Per Million). If you are in Europe you multiply your EC level times .7 and you will get your parts per million. If you are in the USA then you multiply your EC level by .5 to get your parts per million.

 

You should understand this basic principle as a grower so you will be able to properly interpret data that you get from your meters. This also will help you to mix a proper nutrient solution and follow recomended guide lines set by manufacturers that make the nutrient systems.

 

The EC level or parts per million helps to tell you what concentrations the elements in the solution are at. The lower the level of concentration of these elements, the easier it is for the plants roots to absorb them. This is why your hear sayings like "Less is more". This is also why a weak nutrient solution will most likely never cause a defenciency.

 

Peace!

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