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ledm8

2x120W LED / DR60 / 4x Shackzilla in SCROG

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>Nutrients Table updated
Flowering period

Day (12/12)  Water (l)  Grow/Bloom/TopMax (ml per water litre)

 3		  4	   2/2/2
 7		  5	   2/2/2
 9		  5	   2/2/2
11		  3	   2/2/2
13		  3	   2/2/2

15		  3	   2/2/2
17		  5	   2/2/2
20		  4	   2/2/2
22		  4	   2/2/2
24		  4	   2/2/2

25		  4	   2/2/2
28		  4	   2/2/2
30		  4	   2/3/3
32		  4	   2/3/3
34		  4	   2/3/3

36		  4	   2/3/3
38		  4	   2/2/2
40		  4	   2/3/2
42		  4	   2/3/2 *** all too much, have to do some flushing 
44		  3	   0/0/0 + NMS Bacterial

46		  4	   0/0/0 + NMS Bacterial

The plants sucked the 4 litres of water in about 5 hours. That's the same speed as if there were nutrients in water. When I should start giving nutrients again?

 

Another thing that I've heard was simply putting few nailon strings in soil so that the other end of the string would hang out from the bottom holes of the pots and capillary action would do the rest. Unfortunately my grow doesn't take advantage of any of those tricks. I chose watering from under because of the mega easy watering and my friend adviced it as he has watered his plants for years like that. He had been using smaller pots though (3-5l).

 

How much is it possible to harvest from 60x60 area with soil if everything is done perfect? 200g should be possible relatively easy, though I might not get there anymore with this grow. I could imagine that 300g is possible, but is 400g realistic in any situation? Please no april fools :P

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I'd say when they start drinking faster it will be time to look at your buds to see if there will be any need for nutes already.

For sure 7 days clean water for now, so 5 more clean waterings to go and see if something has changed.

 

For estimation on maximal harvest i would have to put my head in the game first, may be I'll think about it if my home situation allows.

 

Could be interesting to see others estimations too.

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Well, lets do the thinking out loud right here :P

 

I get 1 kg per square meter of soil (got to understand that I use to grow on 1 cub of soil per sq meter, use plenty of hps wattage, have perfect conditions, got C3 reflecting foil all around and select remaining plants out of hundreds of seeds.)

 

In my situation this is the soil surface only, since one side of the room is slightly bigger so the plants themselves will bulge out over the edge and cover a larger surface as the actual soil surface.

 

Theoreticly you should be able to get 600 gr per 60X60cm soil surface, but in practise I doubt will you ever be able to achieve that in a small closet if the walls of the cabin surround this exact surface.

 

Considering this, and the technical trouble to maintain right climates in such a small room, I'd say 400 gr at best with hps, with LED maybe 300, but i hope you will prove me wrong :P

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Let's assume, that we have always enough of height in our room so that we can put any amount of soil there. Therefore we will calculate only the area not capacity.

 

60x60 = 3600cm^2

100x100 = 10000cm^2

 

So if 60x60cm is 36% of the area of 100x100cm, then the yield should be 36% too right? So if we were to limit your grow area to 60x60cm you could make about 360g yield.

 

If this logic doesn't have any serious flaws I will set a goal of 300g yield in next grows. And if everything will turn out to be wonderful and LEDs prove themselves better than HPI/HPS 400g would be possible.

 

That's personally interesting stuff for me as these kind of goals make me focus better in what I do.

 

But now some updates.

 

Flowering day 48

 

I like taking pics under LED because the unusual lighting can compensate the bad quality of mobile phone camera in some artistic way. Will provide pics in natural light next time to have some more reliable visual information.

 

i19611_dagjbaadi.jpg

 

i19612_dagjcaadi.jpg

 

i19613_dagjdaadi.jpg

SZ#2

 

i19614_dagjfaadi.jpg

SZ#2 and SZ#3

 

i19615_dagjgaadi.jpg

The round bud of SZ#3

 

i19616_dagjhaadi.jpg

SZ#2 has the biggest bud and it's placed exactly in the middle of the tent.

The buds feel really dense.

 

 

>Nutrients Table updated - flowering day 48

Day (12/12)  Water (l)  Grow/Bloom/TopMax (ml per water litre)

 3		  4	   2/2/2
 7		  5	   2/2/2
 9		  5	   2/2/2
11		  3	   2/2/2
13		  3	   2/2/2

15		  3	   2/2/2
17		  5	   2/2/2
20		  4	   2/2/2
22		  4	   2/2/2
24		  4	   2/2/2

25		  4	   2/2/2
28		  4	   2/2/2
30		  4	   2/3/3
32		  4	   2/3/3
34		  4	   2/3/3

36		  4	   2/3/3
38		  4	   2/2/2
40		  4	   2/3/2
42		  4	   2/3/2 *** all too much, have to do some flushing 
44		  3	   0/0/0 + NMS Bacterial

46		  4	   0/0/0 + NMS Bacterial
48		  3	   0/0/0 + NMS Bacterial

I watered the plants with 3 litres of Bacteria water and no nutes. They drunk it up in about 1 hour. How much water next time?

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Your calculation makes perfectly sense to me, allthough in reconsideration I got to add that my data is fucking up your equation a bit .

 

I reckon that about 10 to 15 % of my final total yields has been grown out of the exact 1x1 meter area.

 

So better make it 900 to 850 gr per exact square meter as a basis and lets do your calculation from there.

 

Thus: 36% of 900 / 850 = 324/306 gr under hps on 60 x 60 cm.

 

 

On watering:In your situation I'd recommend to water twice a day 2 liters. first 2 liters at lights on, second 2 liters 6 hours thereafter.

 

I can't stress enough how precise watering is one of the major keys to produce big buds.

 

Regular ways of manual watering will some of the time have some of your roots either too wet or to dry.

 

The way to get big buds is to keep all of your roots at all times at optimum moist levels over their entire lifespan.

 

This way the plants have had a chanse to work at their max, whereas in case of regular manual watering ways, only some roots at some times on some days have had a chanse to do so.

 

Therefore I am a huge proponent of tensio meters, blumat and/or wick based automised watering systems.

 

Ps, I wish you all the best in your endeavours to beat those juice sucking & heat producing hps'es

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Hey LedM8,

I see you´ve got nieuw followers!

So you´re sitting right here! :P

The plants are looking great!

 

Greetings

Torsten

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Flowering day 51

 

Images with 100W CFL on and no image manipulation (like always). CFLs are only for the photoshoot, the actual grow is with leds only.

 

i20241_eahcdaadg.jpg

 

i20242_fahcfaadg.jpg

 

i20245_gahdjaadg.jpg

 

i20246_hahcmaadg.jpg

SZ#2 the biggest bud

 

i20247_iahciaadg.jpg

SZ#2

 

i20248_jahcdaadg.jpg

SZ#3 the roundie

 

i20249_jahcoaadg.jpg

SZ#x

 

i20250_kahciaadg.jpg

SZ#2

 

>Nutrients Table updated
Flowering period

Day (12/12)  Water (l)  Grow/Bloom/TopMax (ml per water litre)

 3		  4	   2/2/2
 7		  5	   2/2/2
 9		  5	   2/2/2
11		  3	   2/2/2
13		  3	   2/2/2

15		  3	   2/2/2
17		  5	   2/2/2
20		  4	   2/2/2
22		  4	   2/2/2
24		  4	   2/2/2

25		  4	   2/2/2
28		  4	   2/2/2
30		  4	   2/3/3
32		  4	   2/3/3
34		  4	   2/3/3

36		  4	   2/3/3
38		  4	   2/2/2
40		  4	   2/3/2
42		  4	   2/3/2 *** all too much, have to do some flushing 
44		  3	   0/0/0 + NMS Bacterial

46		  4	   0/0/0 + NMS Bacterial
48		  3	   0/0/0 + NMS Bacterial
49		  2	   0/0/0 + NMS Bacterial
51		  2+2	 0/0/0 + NMS Bacterial // 7h period between the waterings

Watering two times 2l during the same day seems to be too much, because the plants didn't suck the other half so quickly (took like 2h).

 

I'll check for some helpful items for next grow, thanks for giving the idea about it. You may recommend some too if you like.

 

Hey Torsti :P

Glad to see you here!

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I see ledm8,

 

Since I can't look into your amount of ventilation, humidity and temperatures at all times, it sure is hard to get it exactly right from where I am sitting but I trust you will be able to judge it your selves the best by now.

 

But you are right, 4 liters a day seems to much idd, your plants showed this clearly to me while you were feeding, but I thought they could handle it by now without the nutes.

 

maybe 1.5 liters at first, and 1.5 liters the second watering then eh?

 

You'll figure it out mate, im sure of that ;) :P

 

Depending on lots of surrounding factors they might not always drink evenly consistend btw. It'll shift and it's up to you to recognise the situation.

 

On recomendations what to buy? oh, thats easy. I gave you earlyer 2 shackzilla links if I remember right, right?. Please check out what Sannie and El Andy were using to amend their soil with fungi,macrobial life and mineral suplements and try to go about it the same way as they did.

 

Tensio meter would be high on your list too if you'd ask me.

 

All the best man, I feel you have it in you :P

 

PS. I notice that slowly but surely your white pistols are about to return. Earlyer on they were merely dieing off.

 

Good on ya!

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DQ: Great news the hear :P

 

A question came up to my mind - are the yellow leaves because I used to have lower ventilation hole wide open? I used light in same room occasionally even when the tent's lights were off. Perhaps it's the premature ageing process caused by contant overuse of nutrients. The pattern just happens to match the area of light that comes out of the vent hole (on right low on picture). Is it adviced to have some kind of light protector there?

 

i20242_fahcfaadg.jpg

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Hi m8,

 

ive got some yellow bordered leaves to, but i dont think thats windburn caused. For me as beginner it looks like deficit/lockout Mg, Zn in mid phase deficit/lockout.

 

Only a beginners assumption :P i know you fed them enough so iam taut to hear what other ppl say.

 

 

nuff respect

 

GG

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A question came up to my mind - are the yellow leaves because I used to have lower ventilation hole wide open?

DQ> maybe, allthough I can't look in your exact situation.

 

 

I used light in same room occasionally even when the tent's lights were off.

DQ> should not have any influence on the colouration of your leafes, It's a bad thing since it can cause them to turn into herma's

 

Perhaps it's the premature ageing process caused by constant overuse of nutrients.

DQ> most definatly! but for sure in combination with some other factors wich i can't see from here since only the leafes in the center are affected by it.

 

The pattern just happens to match the area of light that comes out of the vent hole (on right low on picture). Is it adviced to have some kind of light protector there?

DQ> Yess, for sake of avoiding them to freak into herma's.

They got a nute lockout at rootslevel ledm8.

 

I noticed this already had started on the pics at the previous page.

 

One of the reasons for them to turn yellow is because your plants will now try to move nutrients that are stored in their bigger leafes towards their buds. (there are some more reasons,but I can't seem to find a logical explanation for your pattern,either some data is missing, or I must be overlooking it, or It is more complex as that I can look into from here.)

 

Your plants were prepairing themselves to die, but maybe you can keep them alive a bit longer still by just sticking to clean water with bacteria.

I reckon it's your only option and I would consider you to be in the stage that's called "flushing".

A thing normally done some 2 or 3 weeks before final harvest in order to give your buds a more pleasent taste.

 

Maybe a good item to have around could be Sannie's final solution in this stage.

 

But don't dispair tho, since they will still pack on some weight.

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DQ:

 

The plants have been 38 days in 24/0 and 52 days in 12/12. First white hairs appeared after about 10 days of 12/12. SZ requires 10-11 weeks (70-77 days) flowering time according to Sannie Shop. Does it mean the whole 12/12 period or the visible flowering when white hairs appear? Should I be watering without nutes the rest 3 weeks? Total no-nute time would be 4 weeks then if not even more. How will the plants manage? :o

 

I think I'm going to invest in

- Symbiosis mycorrhiza fungi

- Buffertablets

- Some bacteria, not sure yet which one (Sannie's or NMS)

- Blumat, but which one for 4 plants (4x15L)?

- Might even double up the soil volume (27L bags instead of 15L bags)

- Tensiometer or is it needed with Blumat watering system?

 

I can't get those items before the harvest, so they won't be used in this grow. Btw I couldn't find Sannie's final solution from his shop.

 

The ventilation hole is now 90% covered until I find something convenient. I'll see if Super silver haze will give me ideas about it :o

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DQ:

 

The plants have been 38 days in 24/0 and 52 days in 12/12. First white hairs appeared after about 10 days of 12/12. SZ requires 10-11 weeks (70-77 days) flowering time according to Sannie Shop. Does it mean the whole 12/12 period or the visible flowering when white hairs appear?

DQ> this flowering time is usually beeing measured at the moment that you flip the timer to 12/12.

 

A plant that has been grown under remarkebly less then optimal conditions will die off (apear ready for harvest iow) long before this 10-11 week indication.

 

A plant however that has been grown under more then exellent conditions like on a cub of soil with plenty of micro and fungal life in combo with perfect nute and water management will apear to be thriving and well for even much longer then 11 weeks, even might extend it's flowering stage untill 16 weeks or beyond.

The flowering time indication is usually just an indication of what most average growers are abel to pull off under average good conditions.

Only a small percentage of it is geneticly decided and that's why breeders like to speak about for instance a 8 week flowerer wich would be typical for an indica dominant strain, or an 11 week flowerer wich would be typical for a sativa dominant strain.

Both strains however would flower and thrive much longer as predicted by the breeders indication when in hands of "elite" growers.

Plants actually die like ppl or animals, like from one day to another. So one moment in oldage they drink and are alive, while some moments later they decide to stop drinking and stop maintaining most of their bodily functions all at once while allowing germs to enter their bodies in order to decay.

 

Enough for you will be to know: The better you get at it, the longer they'll live, the bigger buds you get.

 

 

 

Should I be watering without nutes the rest 3 weeks?

DQ:As far as I'm concerned: Yes.

 

Total no-nute time would be 4 weeks then if not even more.

DQ>If they'll make it that long, I sincerely doubt but keep my fingers crossed for ya.

 

How will the plants manage? :o

DQ>Plants will use up the nutes that have been buffered in their bigger leafes and roots system.

When your soil has been "cleaned up" enough by your microbial life, they also might wanna take up some nutes from there again after some time, allthough the further they are near dying, the more they will relie on already buffered nutrients.

 

 

 

 

I think I'm going to invest in

- Symbiosis mycorrhiza fungi

- Buffertablets

DQ>sounds cleva to me, Maybe try this BAC organic bloom in combination with it. ( since it's the basic feed, and for just over 13 euris a whole lot cheaper and easyer to work with as the Bio Bizz line. Their Topmax is nice tho, but only in verry small amounts since it contains fluvic & humic accids that are derrived from cleverly composed composted materials http://www.igrowhydro.com/detail.aspx?ID=648

- Some bacteria, not sure yet which one (Sannie's or NMS)

DQ> I think Sannies are more easy to work with and more effective.

 

- Blumat, but which one for 4 plants (4x15L)?

- Might even double up the soil volume (27L bags instead of 15L bags)

DQ> I am usually a proponent of large quantities of soil if your height allows, plants tend to grow real tall on lots of soil allthough there are a number of tricks to keep them low.

- Tensiometer or is it needed with Blumat watering system?

DQ>yes. With the blumat tensio meter you read the moist indication. The Blumat autowaterers are adjusted according to what will be reading on the tensio display.

 

To my experience 120 mbar to 150 mbar while in veg or early stage of "12/12 directly from seed", 150 mbar to 180 mbar while in bloom or advanced stage of "12/12 directly from seed".

 

I can't get those items before the harvest, so they won't be used in this grow. Btw I couldn't find Sannie's final solution from his shop.

DQ> I'll take a look soon if he's still selling it or that I have confused him over this product with an other retailer, I just like his products but im not his public relations agent see :o Yup it's there on this page : http://www.sanniesshop.com/bac-organic-products/

The ventilation hole is now 90% covered until I find something convenient. I'll see if Super silver haze will give me ideas about it B)

DQ> I said "maybe" since I couldnt look into your exact situation. If there is a constant air flow annoying your leafes at all times of the day without any rest, then most likely this was the direct cause for your yellowing leafes.(in combination with other factors)

Closing ventholes does not sound like a good idea to me, better diffuse it over a larger area, or try and get it oscillating so that leafes will get a rest at times.

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Flowering day 61

 

Images with 100W CFL on and it is only for the photoshoot, the actual grow is with LEDs only.

 

i21870_hahmeaadj.jpg

 

i21871_hahmfaadj.jpg

 

i21872_hahmgaadj.jpg

 

i21873_hahmhaadj.jpg

SZ#1 mostly

 

i21874_hahmiaadj.jpg

SZ#2 mostly

 

i21875_hahmjaadj.jpg

SZ#3 mostly

 

i21876_hahmkaadj.jpg

SZ#x mostly

 

i21877_hahmlaadj.jpg

SZ#2

 

i21878_hahmmaadj.jpg

SZ#2

 

i21879_hahmnaadj.jpg

SZ#2 and 3

 

i21880_hahmoaadj.jpg

SZ#x

 

i21881_hahmpaadj.jpg

SZ#2

 

i21882_iahmaaadj.jpg

SZ#2

 

>Nutrients Table updated
Flowering period

Day (12/12)  Water (l)  Grow/Bloom/TopMax (ml per water litre)

 3		  4	   2/2/2
 7		  5	   2/2/2
 9		  5	   2/2/2
11		  3	   2/2/2
13		  3	   2/2/2

15		  3	   2/2/2
17		  5	   2/2/2
20		  4	   2/2/2
22		  4	   2/2/2
24		  4	   2/2/2

25		  4	   2/2/2
28		  4	   2/2/2
30		  4	   2/3/3
32		  4	   2/3/3
34		  4	   2/3/3

36		  4	   2/3/3
38		  4	   2/2/2
40		  4	   2/3/2
42		  4	   2/3/2 *** all too much, have to do some flushing 
44		  3	   0/0/0 + NMS Bacterial

46		  4	   0/0/0 + NMS Bacterial
48		  3	   0/0/0 + NMS Bacterial
49		  2	   0/0/0 + NMS Bacterial
51		  2 x2	0/0/0 + NMS Bacterial // 7h period between the waterings
52		  2	   0/0/0 + NMS Bacterial

53		  1.5	 0/0/0 + NMS Bacterial
54		  2	   0/0/0 + NMS Bacterial
55		  2	   0/0/0 + NMS Bacterial
56		  2	   0/0/0 + NMS Bacterial
58		  1.5 x2  0/0/0 + NMS Bacterial

59		  1.5	 0/0/0 + NMS Bacterial
60		  1.5 x2  0/0/0 + NMS Bacterial
61		  2	   0/0/0 + NMS Bacterial

DQ: Thanks for your reply.

 

Any predictions when is the harvest time?

 

The buds are dense and give strong high what I've have tested.

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Should I be able to see the color of trichromes with bare eyes?

Depends how old u are... ;)

But generally a good loupe is very useful if u don't have a macro position on your cam.

 

Good luck. Oh and while i'm in : your plants are beautiful ;) ;)

 

Peace

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Some might say you could have little longer nights like 11/13 or even 10/14 but I would say if it's not broken don't fix it...

Your plants are wonderful m8 so my only advice is don't change anything, you're not that far from harvest ! ;)

 

Peace

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I'm with the others Ledm8.

 

Stick to 12/12, and your estimated time of harvest might be in about 2 weeks.

 

But... as long as white hairs are still popping up... everything is still going your way, so no need to chop.

 

But got to keep an eye on the trichs too, Too dark trichs will make it more stoney, but I figured you are familiar with that.

(No need to worrie about that for now, but in about 2 weeks it will be something to take into consideration)

 

There is a small chance however, that now, since you stick to clean water with bacteria only... at some point the plant might come to life again and continue making white hairs once more. (wich then would give you a reason to let them go longer.)

 

Gotto see about that after one more week on this regime I'd say.

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Buds have more white hairs appearing and are getting fatter. Would it still be ungainless to add nutes to water? Day 65 of 12/12 now (9 weeks 2 days).

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Theyll take their nutes from leaves, dont worry.

 

My assumption is...you havent enough time to wash out if you really fert them at this time. remember 10-11 weeks.

 

 

greetings

 

GG

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