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mapito cleaning and topfeed


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#1 lumatekfan

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 10:07 AM

Hi u guys
I am considering growing on mapito, but I think it might be quite anoying to pull of all the mapito from the roots. Is there a certain way to get rid off all the roots? :rolleyes:
Please let me know how u deal with that!!! :unsure:
My second question is: Is topfeed also possible when using mapito, or is it just for ebb/flow growing?
Is there someone who might give me some info on his mapito-system?
thanks and greetings <_<
luma

#2 e$kob@r

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 02:00 PM

Mapito ...

Some say topfed is ok, but i say Noooooooooooooooooo, iff u want to grow algae, then do it.
Flooding is the best, just because that upper layers stay dry.
A dry upper layer is a dream for a cannabis grower for many reasons.

Every time u flood, u push out the dead air.
When the water retreats, new fresh air is sucked into the mapito.
Its a kind of sponge system, iff a green coockie algae layer is on top there this will not happen so good.

Flushing mapito to make it ready for a new grow is very very easy.
The last two weeks of flowering u have to add some enzymes to help.

How do i flush my mapito:

Well i cut the plants to the bottom, i pull out (with gloves) the stem and biggest roots below that. That i trow away.
Then i turn that certain pot in another empty one, so its upside down.
Then i pull off a bit the biggest and strongest roots. This takes maybe 20 seconds.
Then i break the mapito open , with a stick and my hands.
Then i start flushing with plain water, allot of water. I measure the ec and ph from that drain water (not all but some to test and to give me idea how many minutes a good flush is)
If that drain water has the same value of my tap water i use to flush ... they are ready.
Those pots, i let them drip the most water for about 15 minutes.
Then i take a empty pot again, put it on top, and i put my feet in that, and that pushes the to much water out of it.
After this, i again make the mapito more lose and airy. With my hands and deeper in the pot with a stick.

Viola, ready for use.
Put fresh clones on it, the first time u can water from top with the correct ec and ph ... but then , 3 days later the flooding starts and no more topwatering.
Within that first week, the upper layer from the mapito can become green (from the first watering). Iff u make it lose again with your hands, it will go away.
Cause it is dry and stays dry, the mapito will look perfekt and will be very airy.
U dont need a green coockie on top of your mapito, and this is what happens when u give water on top. It becomes a real green mess.

The power of flooding, makes the clones root like the best. The clones go on the hunt for deeper water layers. That is how u reach a very healthy and strong rootsystem.
Water a clone from the top, makes it lazy, and i will not make roots like u would draw them from the bottom.

U never have to replace this mapito, u only refill a very tiny bet every time u flush and re-use. Simple and cheap + effective.
I had the same good results over and over again, some mapito is allready several years with me here.

I hope u do understand, iff not, i am ready to ask u any info u want.

Grdz e$ko,
Cogito ergo sum

#3 gudkarma

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 11:58 PM

i was looking into this on the advice of a friend ;-)

reusing rockwool. i was thinking large cubes.
began researching articles (botanical , production) about tomatoe farmers & large scale rockwool growing.

then i see this thread.

& it's about croutons in containers.

holy smokes!

i get it i get it. i get it.

a way to simplify my life is just around the corner.

how about this product : http://www.google.com/#hl=en&safe=off&...280&bih=666
i never existed.

you never saw shit.

& see you on the flip side.

#4 e$kob@r

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 02:08 AM

gudkarma,

U just hit the jackpot there, that is what u need, and that is what i advise.
Real mapito contains around 5% of foam to, but u can grow as good without it.
The foam gives the extra softnes, thats all.

Avoid rockwool trays or mats like they sell them. Buy them cutted up (i see u call this croutons),they are like clone cubes. They dont have to be perfekt cubes to. Cutted up is ok.
Its sometimes hard for me say what i mean. I dont know specific words, its good that u researched a bit yourself gudkarma .... karma UP.

Over here ive seen indoor gardeners growing tomatoes and much more on rockwool. They do that in big concrete containers in the ground that are drained.
The moment they cut there plants (end of produktion) the rockwool go to a steaming factory to clean up perfekt.
At this point, the commercial cannabis people buy some. Tripple the price (even more) and start selling them.
So its not that they designed this perfekt medium, they kind of buy(steal) it from other cultures and put there own name and label.
It would be very very odd that they would do this only in europe, i am convinced u can find it in the states as easy. But u have look on the correct place, that means not always the canna commercial world first.
Look further and discover how the farmers cultures work around u. Many people have no clue how they do it cause they think growing cannabis is way different, NOT.

Everybody who grows on hydroton should switch into this, its cheaper and better to controll.
Rockwool is re-usable forever. Well not 4ever 4ever, but untill it goes away like dust.
The roots that stay after flushing and cleaning the rockwool, will disapear in matter of two weeks.
They do not cause problems or damage for the new grow.
When u flush next time, u will not find em anymore, only the new rootsystems.

In the past there were times i was out of enzymes, and even then i re-used my rockwool.
It was a bit more harder to clean, but not impossible. The roots get a bit disolved by enzymes, and u do miss that when u dont add them.

I add enzymes the first two weeks of flowering + the last two weeks. Every week in between is waste of money, time and enzymes.
The only reason u need enzymes is this. That is why i dont see the point using it on soil at all.

Any info needed about this subjekt? ill be glad to speak up what i know and help u all.
Once u are getting started, i would be very pleased to follow u in closeby. This system of growing is my passion.
I can help u not to need to do experiments,but give u detailed how it works so u can start straight away.

Grdz e$ko,
Cogito ergo sum

#5 lumatekfan

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 04:14 AM

View Poste$kob@r, on Jun 25 2011, 03:08, said:

gudkarma,

U just hit the jackpot there, that is what u need, and that is what i advise.
Real mapito contains around 5% of foam to, but u can grow as good without it.
The foam gives the extra softnes, thats all.

Avoid rockwool trays or mats like they sell them. Buy them cutted up (i see u call this croutons),they are like clone cubes. They dont have to be perfekt cubes to. Cutted up is ok.
Its sometimes hard for me say what i mean. I dont know specific words, its good that u researched a bit yourself gudkarma .... karma UP.

Over here ive seen indoor gardeners growing tomatoes and much more on rockwool. They do that in big concrete containers in the ground that are drained.
The moment they cut there plants (end of produktion) the rockwool go to a steaming factory to clean up perfekt.
At this point, the commercial cannabis people buy some. Tripple the price (even more) and start selling them.
So its not that they designed this perfekt medium, they kind of buy(steal) it from other cultures and put there own name and label.
It would be very very odd that they would do this only in europe, i am convinced u can find it in the states as easy. But u have look on the correct place, that means not always the canna commercial world first.
Look further and discover how the farmers cultures work around u. Many people have no clue how they do it cause they think growing cannabis is way different, NOT.

Everybody who grows on hydroton should switch into this, its cheaper and better to controll.
Rockwool is re-usable forever. Well not 4ever 4ever, but untill it goes away like dust.
The roots that stay after flushing and cleaning the rockwool, will disapear in matter of two weeks.
They do not cause problems or damage for the new grow.
When u flush next time, u will not find em anymore, only the new rootsystems.

In the past there were times i was out of enzymes, and even then i re-used my rockwool.
It was a bit more harder to clean, but not impossible. The roots get a bit disolved by enzymes, and u do miss that when u dont add them.

I add enzymes the first two weeks of flowering + the last two weeks. Every week in between is waste of money, time and enzymes.
The only reason u need enzymes is this. That is why i dont see the point using it on soil at all.

Any info needed about this subjekt? ill be glad to speak up what i know and help u all.
Once u are getting started, i would be very pleased to follow u in closeby. This system of growing is my passion.
I can help u not to need to do experiments,but give u detailed how it works so u can start straight away.

Grdz e$ko,
Hi eskobar :rolleyes:
thank you for your reply. That was very good info!!! I thought it would be way more complicated getting the mapito ready for the next round. Could u say something about your feeding schedule, just regarding ec?
I read in sannies shop that your plants do not need much fertilizer, thus how much ec would u advice?
thanks
greetz <_<
luma

#6 e$kob@r

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 05:47 AM

Heya,

First of all, re-using rockwool by flushing it, is less work then carrying some bags of soil to your growroom and replace the earlier soil.
I have a garden hose in every growrroom, i turn all my crates and clean the biggest roots a bit, roll a joint, and sit on my ass for 20 mins smokin and flushing. pfew, thats hard. :rolleyes:
The crates are still on the hydro table at this point, i do not do more then turning them and a very tiny refill every grow. (refill is needed cause the roots crush rockwool to dust, every time a little %)
In the reservoir i put a extra pump, that sucks all the water to the sewer pipe. So i use the flooding system reversed here.
In hot summer i keep this water and give it in the garden everywere. Recycling water , yeps.

The ec level is very simple the entire grow, i use 1.4 ec always. The first watering of the clones, i would dare to take 1.1 ec, but it depends how big and nice the clones are.
3 days later i start 1.4 ec, 3 days later again ... till the end.
It does happen that i pump in some thousand liters of rainwater to, then i give 1.6, cause the basic ec is 0.6

the basic rule is that u measure your tap or rainwater ec (the water u gonna use) and u do + 1.0 ec

When i fill my reservoir it looks likes this: (one reservoir here = 2 times flooding, then its allmost empty)

I fill my reservoir for 90% with water.

I add 1.0 ec nutes and after this the ec meter is put away. Not needed anymore.

After this i give the additives: enzymes, supervit, calgel or rootstim.
This must not be measured. There is no reason to measure a ec.
They are not nutes but additives then give u a fake ec level. Iff u understand me.

Now i adjust the ph value. I always aim at 5.6 ph from beginning to end.
Iff ... i give to much ph- ... then i can refill the reservoir a bit to make it higher again.
I do this to avoid PH+ using , wich is not so good for the plants actually. Its not good.
The little water u add, does make the ec level a bit lower, but ... that will do no harm and its not that u will notice it.

Additives and timing used:

First two weeks of flowering (+ entire pregrowing) = 'growing nutes' 1.4 basic ec + rootstim + enzymes (here i use a plastic foil above the plants to get greenhouse effect)

Third to 6 the week = 1.4 ec Growing nutes + supervit (or any other multivitamine, but dont overdo this) + calgel (1/10 dosage from the bottle)
(also in this week u can build up extra PK13-14 if u grow for buds, breeders dont do this cause pistils need to get pollinated and not riped by itself ..., and u dont have to measure this to, add it like a additive)
Measure the basics and nothing more, iff u control these u win.

7th week = 1.4 Growing nutes + enzymes.
8the week = half nute level, that means 0.7 ec, ph 5.6 and full dosage of enzymes.

The last days, i refill the reservoir without something i add. Just water. I do not measure anymore, nothing. The plants will stay healthy
Its not flushing cause i flood ( i hate flushing) but its something like that.
I also always try to end up with dry crates, so when i flush them, its a lightweight. This u learn in time doing. Little tricks.

When u flower longer then this 8 week example, well then its just some logical thinking and u spread out this shedule.

I did not invent this superb system, all credit are for Hennepdesk, he diserves the karma. I learned this all from him, very detailed.
I just explain it to u, cause its magic.
From that moment on i didnt change from medium or nutes or system. No, i have more time to check out strains with a fantastic system.

Grdz e$ko,
Cogito ergo sum

#7 mr cheese

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 06:14 AM

great info e$ko.. your man after my own heart.. for many years i grew in a home made vertical system filled with 290 ltrs of diced rockwool, to this day i havent found a better medium that produes the same quality buds as diced rockwool, even my organic soil crops are never as sticky or as tastey as my diced rockwool grow buds!

iv got a old thread over at i.c mag if anyone wants a look.. from 4 400 hps in my vertical system i was pulling 80 plus oz! so say 2 1/2 keg frm 4 400!

but as you say using 1m2 flood n drain tables is a very good system, done this for many a year now, only ever done 4 crops with the same rockwool tho..

what enzymes do you use e$ko??
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#8 gudkarma

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 06:43 AM

cant be done in a sterile fashion without enzymes?

same medium, same technique, just using a "sterile reservoir" concept.
i never existed.

you never saw shit.

& see you on the flip side.

#9 lumatekfan

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 08:24 AM

hey eskobar very nice info :rolleyes: thank u for the schedule!!!
And of corse thanks to Hennepdesk!!! :)
I have just one more questions even though u already convinced me!!! :unsure:
I wanted to use 2 boxes to flood the plants. These boxes are 16 cm high and carry 43l. They are 75cm long and 55 broad. How many plants would u put on one box? My room is 2sqm. :)
thanks for sharing your knowledge! :huh:
Ps. I am still wating for the NLA to come out!! <_<
luma

#10 lumatekfan

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Posted 24 August 2011 - 07:35 PM

Hi there eskobar,
I hope u can give me an advice how often I should water my ebb&flow system. Could u give me a schedule how often u flood during the grow?
Would appreciate the info ;)
luma :huh:

#11 e$kob@r

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Posted 25 August 2011 - 03:17 AM

Hey luma,

Every 3 days.

The day u plant the clones in flushed mapito u water them from the top.
3 days later u start flooding, 3 days later again ... like this, till the end.

Grdz e$ko,
Cogito ergo sum

#12 lumatekfan

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Posted 25 August 2011 - 03:51 AM

Thanks for the quick reply eskobar!!! ;)
I love this forum :huh:

#13 Grobi

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Posted 25 August 2011 - 02:17 PM

Great infos Esko!

If one wouldnt like to use clones but Seed plants instead: Could you pregrow them on soil and then put em in the Mapito? Or would this lead to algea or clogged up pipes in anyway?
"What is Expressed, is never the reality. What is Reality, cannot be expressed"

#14 e$kob@r

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Posted 25 August 2011 - 02:39 PM

Perhaps the soil growers will not like to hear this.
But to much soil in mapito = contamination of the neutral medium. LOL

After u plant those seedlings, u water from top only once. After that the top stays dry. No extra algae, no its very neat.

U can perfektly grow seeds in smaller pots, then plant them in the mapito and straight into flowering. I do that many times.
I start in spongepots, some days later they go in 0.5 liter pots ... for about 10 days.
Then i transplant them on mapito.

Dont start to put 10 liter soil in your 20 liter mapito ... think logical, okay?

When u transplant from soil to mapito, make sure u gently take as many of the soil u can away from the rootsystem.
In this pregrowing point, u may damage the roots ... in fact, iff u damage some it will boosten up the sideways spreading of rooting.
somtimes when i see only few dominant pin roots towards the bottom, i do cut those off.
Cutting a root, is like when u top a plant ... its the same. Caution, do it wrong and u will have problems.
Iff u plant clones on mapito, and they have long roots hanging below the clonecube, cut em off just beneath the clonecube. This will help u.

Playing with roots is experience, but u all finally have to learn it one time.

grdz e$ko,
Cogito ergo sum

#15 Grobi

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Posted 25 August 2011 - 02:59 PM

View Poste$kob@r, on Aug 25 2011, 14:39, said:

Perhaps the soil growers will not like to hear this.
But to much soil in mapito = contamination of the neutral medium. LOL

.....

Dont start to put 10 liter soil in your 20 liter mapito ... think logical, okay?


:huh:

This makes perfectly sense. ;)

Esko:
How big can one expect a straight Indica like KO Kush to get, if raised for 10 days in 0,5L and then into 12/12 with the mapito and ebb and flood? Or better asked: If one would grow this way like you described, how many plants (indica and/or sativas) would you put under one 600W lamp and 1,2mX1,2mX2m space?
"What is Expressed, is never the reality. What is Reality, cannot be expressed"

#16 e$kob@r

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Posted 25 August 2011 - 03:13 PM

Normally on that surface area, 1.2mē
I take 6 big crates, each around 35 to 40 liter mapito and put those on the flooding table.

In each crate i put 2 or 3, depending the strain.

They will become 1 to 1.2 meter on this system. Some supercropping and u have a perfekt sog.
I supose u grow in a tent, from 1.2mē, did u allready see those cheap nets they sell from Secret Jardin? U gonna need that.

First week, nothing much will happen, u will think i fooled u with al this (crap) information.

One week later u will witdraw your negative thoughts. You will not believe what u see.

I warn u, watch out with pregrowing. Rooted clones go straight in flowering.
Seeds u can give around 10 days maximum, otherwise they will blow the zippers of your tent.

Grdz e$ko,
Cogito ergo sum

#17 Grobi

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Posted 25 August 2011 - 03:31 PM

View Poste$kob@r, on Aug 25 2011, 16:13, said:

Seeds u can give around 10 days maximum, otherwise they will blow the zippers of your tent.

Stop making me horny ;)

Yes I have a tent, 1,44mX1,44m but that Nutriculture ebb/flow system I saw is made for 1,2mX1,2m...

What kinda crates do you use? Just some plastic stuff from the supermarket with holes innit? Whats their (rough) measurement?

(If my questions get to stuid Id also apreciate a link to a growreport from you - I didnt find much topics opened by you)
"What is Expressed, is never the reality. What is Reality, cannot be expressed"

#18 e$kob@r

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Posted 25 August 2011 - 04:27 PM

http://www.wietforum...ito-t40496.html

This = simple, it really is.

But this was 2008 ...

During the years of adventure, i learned some things extra.

2 or 3 plants per crate = ok, all above = overkill

I grow them bigger these days. Almost the double size.

I learned how temp changes night/day had big influence in final size of the plant.

To flush my mapito to restart a grow, i dont even have to take em out ... i do it all inside the tent on the table.

Watch the mapito on the end of the grow, do u see algae? notice how clean it is.

Grdz e$ko,
Cogito ergo sum

#19 Grobi

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Posted 25 August 2011 - 04:35 PM

Time to read! ;)

If I should have questions, Ill post em here or PM you, whatever u like!


First question is already there: The crates you use seem to be very high compared to the flooding table itself. I remember that you said that you like to flood it at 1/3 of the crates height nowadays.

Do you still use the same crates?
How high are they/How high do you flood?
How many "Holes" have they at the bottom to let the water in?
What nutes do you like to use? 3 part (grow micro bloom)? Would a 2 part do? Are there usable "organic" or half organic nutes or will they bring trouble with mapito?
Can I use "Canna Calzium" instead of CalGel?

Questionsquestionsquestions... ^^
"What is Expressed, is never the reality. What is Reality, cannot be expressed"

#20 Grobi

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Posted 05 September 2011 - 09:20 AM

Bumpity Bump Bump

Excuse me as I added my last questions per EDIT and they seem to have gone under the radars ^^
"What is Expressed, is never the reality. What is Reality, cannot be expressed"