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ledm8

2x120W LED / DR60 / 4x Shackzilla in SCROG - Round 2

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Hi BalzaSteel :) I've been told in grow shop that water pump will do the job as well as air pump. Is this not a water pump? I thought that water gets oxygen just by moving the water layers in the bucket. Is chlorine bad for plants? Here they use chloride instead of chlorine.

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heya M8 :)

 

well, the reason they treat tapwater with chlorine/chloride/chloramine is to kill off micro organisms that can make you ill, problem is, they also kill off all the micro organisms in your soil, and the micro organisms in your soil are crucial to the health of your plants. here's a free download for a book on soil microlife and why it's important

 

the ONLY way a water pump can introduce oxygen to your water is if it pumps water up into the air so it splashes back into the water, like a fountain or a water fall, (this is natures way of oxygenating water) if it doesn't do that then then grow shop guy is either misinformed, or he is outright scamming you, think about it for a second, how can you put possibly put air in your water without putting air in your water?

 

BalzOut

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I'm in an impression that it's enough if the water layers change just like in a lake. And I doubt that chloride would dissapear just like that as aquarium people use other methods to get rid of it (like vitamin c). We need someone who knows the shit.

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Quote ledm8 " I've been told in grow shop that water pump will do the job as well as air pump. Is this not a water pump? I thought that water gets oxygen just by moving the water layers in the bucket. " end quote.

 

They are right on thatone. should do the job.

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Quote ledm8 " I've been told in grow shop that water pump will do the job as well as air pump. Is this not a water pump? I thought that water gets oxygen just by moving the water layers in the bucket. " end quote.

 

They are right on thatone. should do the job.

 

 

hmm, in that case I suppose everybody running a deep water culture system will be changing from air stones to water pumps since they'll do the same job quietly.

 

good luck with it, hope it works out well 4 ya m8

 

Balzout.

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@Ledm8> I hear lots of ppl complaining about the shorter versions of the blumat autowaterers so better go for the longer ones I'd say.

( But I never worked myself with the auto blumats tbh. I'm a bit more oldschool still that way and work with wicks and blumat tensiometers only, works equally well, and if I haven't loaned my blumat tensiometers to friends in need, then also just my finger poked at different depts of the medium works almost equally well. ) :)

 

Give them a call on blumat tensio meters I'd say, most likely they are just out of stock for the moment or so but they will order.

 

 

@ Balzasteel.> It is more about avoiding the water to become stagnant and hence avoiding it to become deprived from oxigine as that it is about trying to enrich it with oxigine, cuzz that would be total BS since oxigine is already largely provided on soil based mediums that have been watered well but never too much.

 

On soil, moist at roots level "once token up by the roots" will become immediatly replaced with AIR, wich holds the perfect balance of Oxigine, Carbondioxide and Nitrogine for plants to thrive well.

 

Plants have been kinda designed to thrive on it that well, since they have been co-evoluating on it since trazilions of years.

 

Unlike the modern days DWC systems, that in compare to soil based mediums happen to become somewhat flawed without the bubbles, lol. :D

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Yo Ledm8. I stumbled upon this tread and hoped that it could be usefull to you. > https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=166899&page=15

 

This peticular page and the next deals with numbers of over 1 gr/watt under leds. I remember you had questions about it during your previous grow.

 

I donno what's the Mods opinion on showing treads from other sites as their own, but sometimes I also place OPG links on that forum and so far I haven't got any trouble over it but we'll see, lol.

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We don't give a shit. The only things we hope for is civility and maturity. This isn't a site where the names of other seed buying venues are censored or where new growers are suckered by hype. For growers by growers.

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Flowering week 8 (flowering day 56, overall day 87):

 

So here are the pics of the last day of week 8. Any predictions how long these will survive? 11 weeks or more? I am aiming for 200g of dry bud but the more the better ofc.

 

The buds grow wide from bottom and that part of buds is often under the scrog net. I tried to pull some of them up a little, but most of them are too tight to move at all. I was thinking that maybe I should cut the the net some to raise the buds up a) to have more light for them B) to make room for airflow.

 

I have left lower buds to grow this time. Removed maybe half of the fan leaves during flowering weeks 1-5.

 

gallery_3430_2374_706451.jpg

 

gallery_3430_2374_732783.jpg

 

gallery_3430_2374_1073908.jpg

 

gallery_3430_2374_605761.jpg

 

gallery_3430_2374_1061398.jpg

 

gallery_3430_2374_174513.jpg

 

 

 

Info table:

 

>Flowering week 8, lights 12/12:

 Day | Water per plant | Other
 ----------------------------------------------------------------
  56 | 0.2L x2
  55 | 0.2L x2
  54 | 0.25L x2		| + Bacto 1/3 spoon per plant
  53 | 0.25L
  52 | 0.25L
  51 | 0.5L			| + BAC Bloom 2ml/L
  50 | 0.25L		   | 0.1L water on DR60 floor every day from now on
 ----------------------------------------------------------------

Flowering week 7, lights 12/12:

 Day | Water per plant | Other
 ----------------------------------------------------------------
  49 | 0.5L			| + Bacto 1/3 spoon per plant
  48 | 0.5L
  47 | 0.5L			| + 0.5L underground watering total
  46 | 0
  45 | 0.25L
  44 | 0.5L			| + BAC Bloom 2ml/L
  43 | 0.25L
 ----------------------------------------------------------------

Flowering week 6, lights 12/12:

 Day | Water per plant | Other
 ----------------------------------------------------------------
  42 | 0.5L			| + Bacto 1/3 spoon per plant
  41 | 0.25L
  40 | 0.25L		   | + 1.5L underground watering total
  39 | 0.5L
  38 | 0.5L			| + BAC Bloom 2ml/L
  37 | 0.5L
  36 | 0
 ----------------------------------------------------------------

Flowering week 5, lights 12/12:

 Day | Water per plant | Other
 ----------------------------------------------------------------
  35 | 0.5L			| Stopped balancing the water PH as I've read it's unnecessary
  34 | 0.5L
  33 | 0.5L			| + BAC Bloom 2ml/L
  32 | 0.5L
  31 | 0.5L			| + Bacto 1/3 spoon per plant
  30 | 0.5L			| + BAC Bloom 2ml/L
  29 | 0.5L
 ----------------------------------------------------------------

Flowering week 4, lights 12/12:

 Day | Water per plant | Other
 ----------------------------------------------------------------
  28 | 0
  27 | 0.5L
  26 | 0
  25 | 0.5L
  24 | 0
  23 | 0.5L
  22 | 0
 ----------------------------------------------------------------

Flowering week 3, lights 12/12:

 Day | Water per plant | Other
 ----------------------------------------------------------------
  21 | 0.75L		   | + Bacto ½ spoon per plant
  20 | 0.5L			| + BAC Bloom 1,5ml/L
  19 | 0.25L
  18 | 0.5L
  17 | 0.5L
  16 | 0.5L
  15 | 0
 ----------------------------------------------------------------

Flowering week 2, lights 12/12:

 Day | Water per plant | Other
 ----------------------------------------------------------------
  14 | 0.5L			| + 1.5L underground watering total
  13 | 0.5L
  12 | 0.5L
  11 | 0.5L
  10 | 0.5L
9 | 0.75L		   | + Bacto
8 | 0.5L
 ----------------------------------------------------------------

Flowering week 1, lights 12/12:

 Day | Water per plant | Other
 ----------------------------------------------------------------
7 | 0
6 | 0.5L
5 | 0.5L
4 | 0.5L
3 | 0.5L
2 | 0.5L
1 | 0.5L			| Light cycle switched for flowering
 ----------------------------------------------------------------

Veg week 4-5, lights 24/0:

 Day | Water per plant | Other
 ----------------------------------------------------------------
  31 | 0.5L
  30 | 0.5L
  29 | 0.5L

  28 | 0.5L
  27 | 0.5L
  26 | 0.5L
  25 | 1.0L
  24 | 0.5L
  23 | 0
  22 | 0.7L
 ----------------------------------------------------------------

Veg week 3, lights 24/0:

 Day | Water per plant | Other
 ----------------------------------------------------------------
  21 | 0.5L			| + Bacto
  20 | 0.5L
  19 | 0
  18 | 1.0L
  17 | 0.5L
  16 | 0.5L			| I used 1x120W the first weeks, but now 2x120W is on
  15 | 0.5L			| Set up scrog net
 ----------------------------------------------------------------

Veg week 2, lights 24/0:

 Day | Water per plant | Other
 ----------------------------------------------------------------
  14 | 0
  13 | 0.5L  
  12 | 1.0L
  11 | 0.5L	  
  10 | 1.0L			| + Bacto
9 | 0
8 | 0.5L
 ----------------------------------------------------------------

Veg week 1, lights 24/0:

 Day | Water per plant | Other
 ----------------------------------------------------------------
7 | 1.5L			| 4 plants transferred to 15 liter pots and watered with bacto
5 | -			   | FIM-topped the biggest 2 plants once.
0 | -			   | Cuttings got rooted in 3 weeks
 -21 | -			   | 8 cuttings from part1 best yielder and put in 2dl soil with Symbiosis mycorrhiza and Sannie's bacto
 ----------------------------------------------------------------

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Flowering week 8 (flowering day 56, overall day 87)

 

Forgot these pics from the last post, so here they are.

 

DQ: What harm the clay bottom can do?

 

gallery_3430_2374_902811.jpg

 

gallery_3430_2374_282076.jpg

 

gallery_3430_2374_447246.jpg

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Quote: DQ: What harm the clay bottom can do? End quote.

 

Answer >

 

 

The larger part of your roots will all be at the bottom of your growbags and now they will have to compete for breathing space.

 

If that part of the bottom would have been the same as the rest of your bags content, then there would have been enough air left for the roots to fill up this space and even push this soil away and replace it with roots.

 

Since clay is rather solid and dense by nature, there is no way for your roots to compress it and make themselves "fit" in.

 

So now the situation at lower roots level is that they will all be cramped up, causing them to compete for oxigine of wich they won't get enough for sure, and causing your pistills to die off prematurely.

 

Lucky thing is that you got plenty of microbes in your soil to deal with the surplus nute waste, but a small drawback with them however is that also most of them need a big deal of oxigine to thrive in order to convert your ballast material into uptakebles.

Don't get me wrong. having 30% clay chunks in your mix is a verry good thing for your added microbial life to attach to, but especially on pots or on growbags the ratio of all components comes rather precise in order for all elements to work hand in hand.

 

I am not a big fan of removing fanleaves btw. In the final stages of bloom your plants will be too old to make much use of their roots system anylonger so then they will rely on their fan leafes by sucking them dry and add sugars and ionic elements to incompetent parts of the plant serving your buds at final stage.

 

Because they are now missing half of their fan leafes, they won't be able to reach maturity as they should, causing you to harvest a bit earlyer as would have been possible otherwise.

 

Happily you maintained a verry nice "level" canopy with lots of small buddingsites and good airflow, so this effort of yours will cover up largely for the loss on fan leafes, but I am affraid that the hoped 200 gr you wished for you are still not gonna pull off this time either.

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Alright DQ! Challenge accepted. :specool Last time the plants started to die at this time and I also smoked plenty of the buds which I didn't count in the 130g result. That's why I believe I will reach the 200g.

 

This time I outsmarted myself and built 2nd floor in my DR60 for something that can be snipped off during the grow. BTW on that floor there is 5x85W ESLs now, total of 420W :specool. Will post pics some day, but don't want to mix it with this led grow.

 

Edit: shit it's actually 425W, not 420.

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I read a good post that was helpful for me and wanted to share it. Found it while reading one of VerdantGreen's grows at icmag.

 

Originally Posted by Crazy Composer

In response to a question about the signs of plant hunger, from somebody041...

 

First... know that your plants are happier underfed than overfed.

 

An underfed plant can be fed, and this will fix the problem.

 

An overfed plant cannot be fixed as easily.

 

Get my drift? Feed lightly and increase as the plant asks for more.

 

How do you tell when the plant is asking for more?

 

A well-fed plant will have just the slightest tint of red or purple on it's leaf stems (of course there are a few strains with red or purple leaf stems, so watch for those one getting even darker). If there is no red or purple at all on the leaf stems, it is likely that the plant is close to being overfed. There's a fine line between plenty of fertilizer, and too much fertilizer. Green leaf stems = plenty... so be reserved about feeding when the leaf stems are already fully green.

 

So, try to keep that color on the leaf stems very light, not completely green, not completely red or purple. In the middle is where I like it.

 

When my plants start to head toward starvation, they will ask for food by showing more red or purple in those leaf stems. So, if the color is darkening, I know the plant is asking for food, whereupon the plant gets a very light feeding, and the watching of the leaf stem color continues.

 

After doing this a while, you'll know what amount of fertilizer is working to stop the darkening of the red and purple colorations on the leaf stems.

 

Another way to judge how much food the plant has available to it is to break a leaf off and taste the juice droplet that forms at the broken end. If this juice tastes bitter, the plant is eating. If it tastes like pure water, the plant doesn't have much nutrient available to it.

 

This is a scalar thing. In other words, you can tell how much fertilizer is available by the bitterness of the juice. Very bitter is very well fed. Very clean, like pure water... is where you want the plants at harvest time. You don't want to harvest a plant with bitter blood coursing through its veins. This bitterness comes from dissolved salts and minerals, and so cutting the buds and drying them with these salts inside is unhealthy and will make for some terrible smoke.

 

The trickiest way to tell about plant nutrition takes some real experience. Smelling the resins of the plant.

 

Smell the resins when you KNOW the plant has plenty to eat. Then smell the same plant when you KNOW it has been flushed of nutrients. There will be a difference. This is the difference a good pot grower should be able to tell.

 

To a novice nose, most pot smells great. But to a truly great pot grower, the smell of the resins can tell him/her a lot about the amount of nutrient left in the plant. Get used to this difference if you really want to best tools in the intellectual toolbox for growing superb dope.

 

----

 

It's not what you feed, it's when you feed, and how much.

 

A plant will tell the grower what it needs, and what it does not. It's up to the grower to adjust.

 

Personally, I take the absolute minimalist route when I feed.

 

My organic soils are very simple, with only enough organic material built in to get the organic process kicked off. (coco coir or pro-mix, perlite, worm castings and a small amount of a well-rounded fertilizer which contains bone meal, blood meal etc.). This soil mix is very light, and its only purpose is to establish the microherd.

 

The rest of the fertilization is done as the grow progresses. Generally, I like to use bat and seabird guanos, scratched into the surface and watered in. This feeds the microherd, which --in turn-- feeds the roots.

 

I use the same basic theory to feed my plants organically as I do in EVERY OTHER METHOD, chemical, or organic/chemical hybrid growing styles. This is what I mean... A plant will show certain signs of hunger, or of overfeeding. If you know these signs, you can give them ONLY what they ask for.

 

Terrible herb can come from both chemical AND organic gardens. Terrible herb is usually a result of a plant having too much access to available nutrients at harvest time. This condition can be true in organics as well as in chemical growing. I don't care what the "no flush for organics" crowd says, I know better. Flushing organic soil CAN be necessary to achieve what I call acceptable herb, IF the soil is too hot at harvest time. By "hot" I mean it has too much actively releasing organic material at the time of harvest. Some of the most disgusting herb I have ever smoked was harvested from hot organic soils.

 

To avoid this organic heat at harvest time, I use the above-mentioned organic feeding method, where I only give them enough to last a week or so, and keep an eye on them to know when they're running out of the last dose. Actually, this is the way I feed ALL plants, organic or not. I use NO schedule, I just feed them when they're starting to ask for it, and it's that simple.

 

In this way, you can create starvation conditions at harvest time, allowing the nutrients to dissipate almost completely, and forcing the chlorophyll to begin to leach out of the leaves and then the buds. By harvest, my plants are dropping leaves left and right, just like in a natural autumn/FALL situation (remember to be a good surrogate Mother Nature).

 

My herb tastes like the plant it comes from, and NOTHING else. There's no hint of ANYTHING but the essence of the herb itself, as it should be. The reason I get these results is that my plants are allowed to starve for a week or two before harvest. The buds often have a golden/yellow hue to them when dry.

 

The moral of the story... Don't overfeed any plant, even in organics you can overdo it.

 

Hint - When scratching your dry guanos into the soil surface, don't just water them and consider the job done. It is important to scratch it in, then wet the surface and wait for a minute or two before giving them their full watering. This pause allows the dry guanos to get wet and begin to release their bounty of nutrients and enzymes. If you wait this minute or two after wetting the guano, then water completely, the plants will receive a good feeding. If you don't allow this time, you'll get a very concentrated cake of nutrients at the surface of the soil, which does the plant very little good.

 

It all comes down to common sense. Often, the common sense thing to do takes a lot more effort, so many growers skimp on these steps thinking it won't matter. It DOES. The difference between a great grower and an average grower = effort. You just gotta do what ya gotta do, no matter what time of day it is, how sick you feel, how drunk you are or how much of a pain in the ass it is, you just gotta go get er done.

 

cc

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This article resonates fairly well with me.

 

One thing what he mentioned is that not all canna varieties their leaf stems respond similarly to change in colour and I'd like to add that for a noob this would be real hard to figure out what coulour it is supposed to be if he can't compare them with different type of strains.

 

Hell, you can even tell the Ph of clean drinkingwater by tasting it if you train yourself to do that.

 

The difference between acidic and based water everyone can already tell in an instant that way.

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Flowering week 9 (flowering day 63, overall day 94)

 

gallery_3430_2374_492689.jpg

 

gallery_3430_2374_65537.jpg

 

gallery_3430_2374_614037.jpg

 

gallery_3430_2374_596209.jpg

 

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gallery_3430_2374_447680.jpg

 

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gallery_3430_2374_609463.jpg

 

gallery_3430_2374_285817.jpg

 

gallery_3430_2374_362106.jpg

 

gallery_3430_2374_377542.jpg

 

 

Info table:

 

>Flowering week 9, lights 12/12:

 Day | Water per plant | Other
 ----------------------------------------------------------------
  63 | 0.25L		   | + Bacto 1/6 spoon per plant
  62 | 0.25L		   | + Bacto 1/6 spoon per plant
  61 | 0
  60 | 0.2L x2
  59 | 0.2L x2
  58 | 0.25L x2		| + BAC Bloom 2ml/L
  57 | 0.2L x2
 ----------------------------------------------------------------

Flowering week 8, lights 12/12:

 Day | Water per plant | Other
 ----------------------------------------------------------------
  56 | 0.2L x2
  55 | 0.2L x2
  54 | 0.25L x2		| + Bacto 1/3 spoon per plant
  53 | 0.25L
  52 | 0.25L
  51 | 0.5L			| + BAC Bloom 2ml/L
  50 | 0.25L		   | 0.1L water on DR60 floor every day from now on
 ----------------------------------------------------------------

Flowering week 7, lights 12/12:

 Day | Water per plant | Other
 ----------------------------------------------------------------
  49 | 0.5L			| + Bacto 1/3 spoon per plant
  48 | 0.5L
  47 | 0.5L			| + 0.5L underground watering total
  46 | 0
  45 | 0.25L
  44 | 0.5L			| + BAC Bloom 2ml/L
  43 | 0.25L
 ----------------------------------------------------------------

Flowering week 6, lights 12/12:

 Day | Water per plant | Other
 ----------------------------------------------------------------
  42 | 0.5L			| + Bacto 1/3 spoon per plant
  41 | 0.25L
  40 | 0.25L		   | + 1.5L underground watering total
  39 | 0.5L
  38 | 0.5L			| + BAC Bloom 2ml/L
  37 | 0.5L
  36 | 0
 ----------------------------------------------------------------

Flowering week 5, lights 12/12:

 Day | Water per plant | Other
 ----------------------------------------------------------------
  35 | 0.5L			| Stopped balancing the water PH as I've read it's unnecessary
  34 | 0.5L
  33 | 0.5L			| + BAC Bloom 2ml/L
  32 | 0.5L
  31 | 0.5L			| + Bacto 1/3 spoon per plant
  30 | 0.5L			| + BAC Bloom 2ml/L
  29 | 0.5L
 ----------------------------------------------------------------

Flowering week 4, lights 12/12:

 Day | Water per plant | Other
 ----------------------------------------------------------------
  28 | 0
  27 | 0.5L
  26 | 0
  25 | 0.5L
  24 | 0
  23 | 0.5L
  22 | 0
 ----------------------------------------------------------------

Flowering week 3, lights 12/12:

 Day | Water per plant | Other
 ----------------------------------------------------------------
  21 | 0.75L		   | + Bacto ½ spoon per plant
  20 | 0.5L			| + BAC Bloom 1,5ml/L
  19 | 0.25L
  18 | 0.5L
  17 | 0.5L
  16 | 0.5L
  15 | 0
 ----------------------------------------------------------------

Flowering week 2, lights 12/12:

 Day | Water per plant | Other
 ----------------------------------------------------------------
  14 | 0.5L			| + 1.5L underground watering total
  13 | 0.5L
  12 | 0.5L
  11 | 0.5L
  10 | 0.5L
9 | 0.75L		   | + Bacto
8 | 0.5L
 ----------------------------------------------------------------

Flowering week 1, lights 12/12:

 Day | Water per plant | Other
 ----------------------------------------------------------------
7 | 0
6 | 0.5L
5 | 0.5L
4 | 0.5L
3 | 0.5L
2 | 0.5L
1 | 0.5L			| Light cycle switched for flowering
 ----------------------------------------------------------------

Veg week 4-5, lights 24/0:

 Day | Water per plant | Other
 ----------------------------------------------------------------
  31 | 0.5L
  30 | 0.5L
  29 | 0.5L

  28 | 0.5L
  27 | 0.5L
  26 | 0.5L
  25 | 1.0L
  24 | 0.5L
  23 | 0
  22 | 0.7L
 ----------------------------------------------------------------

Veg week 3, lights 24/0:

 Day | Water per plant | Other
 ----------------------------------------------------------------
  21 | 0.5L			| + Bacto
  20 | 0.5L
  19 | 0
  18 | 1.0L
  17 | 0.5L
  16 | 0.5L			| I used 1x120W the first weeks, but now 2x120W is on
  15 | 0.5L			| Set up scrog net
 ----------------------------------------------------------------

Veg week 2, lights 24/0:

 Day | Water per plant | Other
 ----------------------------------------------------------------
  14 | 0
  13 | 0.5L  
  12 | 1.0L
  11 | 0.5L	  
  10 | 1.0L			| + Bacto
9 | 0
8 | 0.5L
 ----------------------------------------------------------------

Veg week 1, lights 24/0:

 Day | Water per plant | Other
 ----------------------------------------------------------------
7 | 1.5L			| 4 plants transferred to 15 liter pots and watered with bacto
5 | -			   | FIM-topped the biggest 2 plants once.
0 | -			   | Cuttings got rooted in 3 weeks
 -21 | -			   | 8 cuttings from part1 best yielder and put in 2dl soil with Symbiosis mycorrhiza and Sannie's bacto
 ----------------------------------------------------------------

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I don't think that it is due to too much nutes. That part went fairly allright this time, but ofcourse I could always point-fuck here and there, but no, that is not what is causing your leafes to change colour at their base and look like that.

 

Imho, you got rootrot in that claylayer down at the bottom. After harvest you can check that for yourselves by opening the rootbal and smelling it.

 

 

One thing I wanted to mention still in addition to that article that you shared with us. > In order to know how much to feed it is much easyer to just watch the "new growth" or "tip leafes" of the plant.

 

They should be the same colour as the other leafes on the plant at all times.

 

If they are lighter then the other leafes, then you know they are missing something and when the tips (leafendings) of some of the larger leafes turn brown, then that is a definitive sign that they have got too much of something.

 

Got to avoid the latter situation most of all.

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Too much watering. Also might very well be rootrot somewhere else too. Will check it after some weeks :o But I've been watering two times a day instead of one for two weeks now. It and what's been written here have made me realize (hopefully) how much they should be watered.

 

Good addition to the article (post #43), thanks.

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Yups, I guess that's how we all had to learn how to do it right.

 

But ok, nothing's lost and I am more then confident that next time things will turn out better for ya.

 

You seem to be dedicated enough to wanna get this done correctly, and besides, that tensio meter will show you the way next time.

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