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DocGee

Late growth spurt or Foxtailing?

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I'm still trying to wrap my mind around what foxtailing is, but this recent growth spurt on two plants that are both within 2-3 weeks of harvest has me wondering if I have it.

 

In both cases nice plump, frosty buds have been developing for some time. I forgot to include molasses with my water for about a month, and at first I thought the growth spurt here was just that. Within a couple days of adding the molasses (and some light notes, but that had been ongoing), most of the buds started shooting up another inch or so of thin, vertical size.

 

After searching around for good images and descriptions of foxtailing, as well as another week or two of development on these plants, and I'm wondering what I have here. And if it's foxtailing, why would I object? The new calyxes on these buds are VERY frosty.

 

This is my big girl, KF Chinese x KF F7. The bud is about 6-7 inches long overall and the new growth is more than an inch. Most of the larger buds on this plant have shown the same new development.

 

gallery_6227_3006_879042.jpg

 

This is my little girl, a SnowRyder. She's essentially one big bud, though several smaller ones are shooing this same thin growth spurt... all with beautifully frosty coatings on the new growth.

 

gallery_6227_3006_1440467.jpg

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yep foxtailing it is. :D

 

Grtz HillCrest :P

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It never occurred to me to object to foxtailing.

 

Sometimes the entire bud can be composed of foxtails. That was my experience with Sannie's Jack. Some strains do it, especially sativa doms, and some don't. Most of my favorites do it.

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what are your tempertures like .i had this happen with bud too close to the lights

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I've had it happen feeding to much p in flower after week 6.

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i find i get foxtailing during the summer(my cab regularly hits mid 30's celsius)...my understanding was that high temps can cause it???

my latest summer grow had foxtailing on all the buds, on two different strains.

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Good discussion. I have only seen this type of foxtailing in my pure sativas or mostly sativa hybrids. I just thought it was a trait of sativa genetics, and had no idea environmental factors could bring it on. Duly noted.

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Hmmm... Somehow I did not get notified as others replied, but thanks all for your comments.

 

I did consider temperatures, but don't think that was the cause of foxtailing in this case.

 

Temperatures are pretty modest in my grow closet, a little warm while lights are on, perhaps 80 degrees F overall and maybe up to 85 at the topmost ends of buds closest to the lights (a few inches). This is on the big KF cross. Most of the buds are foxtailing, though, not just those in the warmer area closest to the CFL's. The temps do go down at night - she's on 12/12 - but not terribly cold... mid-60's at the coolest and probably closer to 70 most nights.

 

The SnowRyder is in a cabinet veg chamber (it's an autoflower) on 24/0 lighting. Its closest buds are a little further from the lighting, and temps in this closet are more stable, in the mid-70's around the clock. Even the lowest buds are foxtailing markedly on this one. Trichs on the very uppermost area - on only a few calyxes - just started going amber.

 

As mentioned in the original post, these are unrelated species, grown under separate conditions. They get similar feeding, as they're both within a few weeks of harvest. Both got molasses added to plain pH-ed tap water a few days before foxtailing was noted. The big girl's runoff has been going acidic enough to warrant action - roughly 5, based on the test dye I use - which I started addressing last weekend with some Up pH. (My recycled soil had some peat added a couple generations back, and it's still acidifying things. Early during growth my alkaline tap water has kept things in the neutral range, but I've had a couple pots drift acidic late in growth. I'll mix in some lime before the next round.) The SR's runoff has been holding pretty steady in the neutral range her entire life (autoflowers finish much faster than photoperiod plants, so the peat just hasn't had as much time to break down): it's been perhaps a touch on the high side the last several weeks, toward 7 (she's been drinking a lot relative to the size of pot, so she gets more of my naturally alkaline tap water, which is around 7.5) but otherwise pretty squarely neutral the entire time.

 

Both plants have been shedding fan leaves, which yellowed first, but I think this is just maturation at this late date, at least on the SH. In any event, I've wanted to hold off on further NPK so close to harvest. It COULD be nute lockout on the KF, which is why I took action to get the pH back up a bit... too soon to judge results, and too soon to water again to test more runoff. The KF's lower and interior leaves are still plenty green, but the 15 or so colas reaching for the light all have yellowing fan leaves. I'll probably harvest those ripest colas first, then leave the lower ones intact for another week or two. Then I'll harvest and attempt to reveg.

 

The foxtails have continued to grow - both from the cola tips and around the sides on several - and I'm pretty committed at this point to just riding things out until I'm sure of maturity. I can see how some of those "side-tails" would be a hassle to manicure if I were growing a room full of plants, but I'm still new enough and small-time enough that any interaction with the plants - even taking the time to manicure after harvest - is enjoyable and enlightening.

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I guess indoor plants don't get shutdown cues like cooler days / nights, more red spectrum as the sun hangs lower / shorter days. If they are healthy, and the main bud is set, they figure it's still go time, so they grow where they can. Sound reasonable?

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My KF foxtailed as well. It's still my guess that this is being casued by the sativa part of the genetics.

 

@Wrecks~ I induce "fall" conditions by dropping dark cycle temps by 10+ degrees the last couple weeks of flowering. You can also shorten the light cycle to 13 dark/11 light. These both work well indoors to induce the natural ripening/finish, provided you are not running perpetual. You *never*, however, want your temps to drop below 60*... It halts growth and maturing.

 

Just my .02c.

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Wrecks - My flowering space and veg space have different light spectrums going: veg is all blue (5,000-6000 degrees color temp) and the flowering space is a little more than half red (2700 degrees) with more than ample total lumens. With light off at night in the flowering space, I probably get at a solid 10 degree gradient from day to night. So the flowering space should be experiencing at least a mild fall pattern.

 

Reallate1 - Probably too late to mess with the light cycle to force my big girl to finish - plus she shares space with some younger pots in flower that I'd rather keep on 12/12 - but I'll keep that 11/13 in mind next time around. I may move the autoflowering plant into the same room for a week or so on 12/12 instead of 24/0. I've also read the claim that plunging it into 48 hours of darkness before harvest will force the last bit of growth to exhaust the remaining chlorophyll and nutes, and she'd be just about ready for that today. Any opinions there?

 

Also, what do you mean by "running perpetual?"

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Doc~ I have never ran autoflowers, so I can't really speak on that one. I don't use the dark period preharvest like you mention, although I have heard of it.

A perpetual grow is one where you have plants in different stages of flower all together in your flower room so you can harvest *x* plants every *x* week/s. You are perpetually harvesting and adding new plants as you go. It's just a method of gardening, opposite of running one crop at a time. It helps to keep you from that terrible term "I'm out." :)

It has its downfalls too, though. Hermies can be devistating, not that they are ever good. Imagine 15 plants all full of seed because you missed a few nanners or balls... It can be enough to bring a grown man to tears! OK maybe not tears... but you get the idea. It all depends on what suits you~ advice is like opinions, and I bet you know what they say about that... It's always most important to do what is best for you and your needs/goals.

 

Happy gardening!

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You mean, "Opinions are like bellybuttons: Everybody has one and most of them are full of lint?" (Okay, I heard the other version first, too.)

 

Thanks for the explanation on "perpetual grow." Doh! Turns out that's what I'm already doing!

 

After my big girl gets harvested I will try revegging her, putting her maybe 16 weeks out to another crop if everything goes right. I also have a pot of her clones already in flower for about a month, and a Sannie's Jack about one week behind that. Then my veg space has another pot of KF clones ready for flower in about a week, as well as a couple of clones off the Sannie's Jack that have not yet taken root. My guest bathroom is a temporary nursery, as well, with some autoflowering seedlings that haven't all shown sex yet: far enough away from the girls in flower so that they're pretty unlikely to pollinate anything by accident.

 

Good reminder, though, to stay alert to hermies in my flowering space. Though I'd love to harvest their pollen to try my hand at making feminized seeds.

 

It's hard to resist the temptation to keep putting something new in the ground as soon as the last thing I planted takes hold! The novelty of being a grower is still strong after less than a year... and I've been fairly lucky in my results. But my flowering space will be a little too full in about 6 weeks from now.

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Hahaha... I am in the middle of an upgrade from a 1Kw magnetic ballast to 3 1Kw electronic ballasts. I hear you. It's not novelty if you ask me, it's (or it becomes) an affliction. Someone *could* have worse vices...

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Affliction, obsession, hobby... Or just good clean fun. There's something very "basic" about just making things flourish from dirt.

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Good discussion. I have only seen this type of foxtailing in my pure sativas or mostly sativa hybrids. I just thought it was a trait of sativa genetics, and had no idea environmental factors could bring it on. Duly noted.

 

Same here. Because it only happened in my grows with sativa doms, it never occurred to me that environment had something to do with it.

 

SJ was the only strain I've grow that foxtailed from the start of flowering. Others did it in the last 2-3 weeks. Plants like Hericules, Anesthesia and Herijuana didn't do it at all.

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Just FYI, the other plant that foxtailed on me is a SnowRyder... It's listed as 75% Indica and pretty heavy for me. I probably won't keep growing it - though I have a ton of seeds from previous grow - except to keep a little on hand for occasional help with sleep.

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Reallate1 - Thanks again for your reminder about hermies late in growth! I just spotted a few early nanners on this plant and started to harvest some of the large upper colas where the fan leaves have mostly yellowed off. Those funky foxtailed leaves have little/no trichomes on them, so now I can see how they're a hassle to manicure.

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I've had it happen feeding to much p in flower after week 6.

 

My buds foxtail all the time. Around week 6 is when I also see it most.

Is foxtailing bad?

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No foxtailing isn't bad lol.................. How can more bud be bad ?

 

Foxtailing is genetic.

Most strains will foxtail to some degree, the more indica inclinded the less noticable.

 

As for enviromental factors inducing foxtailing........ the only way you could say that is if your enviromemnt was shit it might not happen lol

 

As for manicuring foxtailing... you'll find that normally any small leaf which occurs on the foxtailing buds are quite sweet to smoke so I wouldn't be too concerned about leaving afew around ;)

 

All the above IMO ;)

 

Grtz HillCrest :P

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No foxtailing isn't bad lol.................. How can more bud be bad ?

 

Foxtailing is genetic.

Most strains will foxtail to some degree, the more indica inclinded the less noticable.

 

As for enviromental factors inducing foxtailing........ the only way you could say that is if your enviromemnt was shit it might not happen lol

 

As for manicuring foxtailing... you'll find that normally any small leaf which occurs on the foxtailing buds are quite sweet to smoke so I wouldn't be too concerned about leaving afew around ;)

 

All the above IMO ;)

 

Grtz HillCrest :P

 

Thanks for explaining that. My plants have been foxtailing for years and I've always wondered if things were somehow going wrong with the bud growth/development. Right on bro!

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For me personally, unless the foxtails fatten up a bunch I find them quite unappealing. The market bears this out as well (at least here in the States), unless you have someone who knows genetics and growth patterns of Sativa dominant plants they think the buds look "raggy". The reason I don't like them is because I would rather smoke "bud" than a stick with a row or two of calyxes. I trim them off and make budder/BHO.

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Having manicured a handful of foxtailed buds yesterday and hung them up to dry, I guess I can see now why serious growers don't like them so much. For my own personal needs it's no big deal but definitely took a little longer. Trimming up a little over 150 grams of bud, I realized that most of my foxtailed leaves - the downward-curved singletons that are smooth along the edges, not typical cannabis-shaped leaves, coming out from the foxtailed growth - did not have a lot of trichomes. The calyxes associated with them still clearly had lots of resin and look like they should yield a potent smoke... I think even the stems had resin. The smoke may be different from the rest of the mature growth, as the trichomes have had relatively little time to ripen on this newer growth... but I don't see myself segregating the foxtails from the rest of the bud just to see if there's a difference.

 

So I ended up trimming a bunch of small, bare leaves that came out of those funny stacked calyxes, which requires a bit of maneuvering with the scissors. When I trimmed my first dried buds (I'm harvesting incrementally) off the main stems, each foxtail got cut off then reduced further into bowl-sized bits, if needed. I would not enjoy doing this with a large quantity of bud. I can see how the paying non-grower would just think they were scraps, twigs and shake.

 

If I were up to trying my hand at concentrates, the foxtails would definitely go in that pile, but I keep and smoke lots of other growth that would go in that pile, as well, if the weed were headed to a dispensary. As a personal grower (and still a relative newbie, not yet at one year of growing) I err on the side of leaving a little too much green on my buds because I don't mind smoking properly dried leaf with my bud. Essentially I trim off anything that is yellowed and/or does not have decent trichome coverage, but this can leave me still with the inner one-third or more of even small fan leaf clusters that come out of the body of buds, along with entire "sugar leaves." Again, most dispensaries would not accept this as properly manicured, but I figure resin is resin.

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Hmmmmmmmm...............

REALLLYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

 

gallery_2354_2689_175704.jpg

(© carper)

 

You DONT want that ?

 

The more Sativa..or to be more precise I suppose really.....the more HAZE .....the bud structure is more a mass of foxtails anyway. ......What many growers may call AIRY buds............but the smoke is so MMMMMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

 

Suppose it's each to their own.

 

Grtz HC :P

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