stoned ramblings, say or post anything you want.

[Gardener 2,161]

23 hours ago, Justcozz said:

It is illegal here to make concentrates with any "explosive" solvent. So yeah, alcohol extraction is a no no. It was intended to stop people from using butane and propane. Someone needs to make an affordable CO2 extractor. So far making concentrates at home is still legal.

so far, California doesn't have a legal definition of "plant". I contacted NORML to see if they could tell me what Cali defines as a plant and they have not responded. 

Butter does not explode.

[Mr Goodfellow 12,402]

I suppose you could still squish rosin. Squeezing nor heat are chemicals. Beachbud just picked up a nice looking press. 

Peace 

mrG

[gardenartus 13,796]

We will just drop this whole thing, would take me too long to make anyone understand how bizarre this is. Cancer patients, some need 5 grams a day, Lets make rosin in the quantity, lets have them drink infused coconut oil, or butter products to the extent of that many mg needed.

I did not expect to get my head ripped off, but that is nothing new from BS, cause he almost always says BS to me.

[Hempyfan 4,152]

rosin is made from heat and pressure and not chemicals.  However that wont help you with the law.

To go this route, you must relocate to areas where they is allowed or grey area or just accept the risks.

 

As far as using chemicals to create a product.  It is reasonable to have rules in place because people have abused this their have been big problems that range in issues.  Most of them serious and blame the fools and the fools trying to be cool kind of thing.

• Oh, FYI.  Distilling is easy legal for ethanol.  You get a permit which is easy or it was a few years ago.  I did this to learn it but do not do it anymore as it is major pain in the ass and I hate doing it.  Might be different per state and location as well.

 

They could do a caretaker program that takes into account these issues and enables correct caretakers to maintain their capability to help their clients. 

• Perhaps considering working with a dispensary and finding grant monies, crowd sourcing and donations to help pay for the difference in cost at dispensaries for the caretakers patients.  Keep working to find solutions even if out of the box so to speak.  This also can help keep the conversation going.  People calling politicians is not enough.  Give them a potential solution (s) they can work with as well. 

 

Life as you knew it is likely not going to change for the better or easier in comparison to how it was but it does not mean necessarily the end either.  Believe me, I live that.

[gardenartus 13,796]

There Will be No Areas allowed to do it by a patient or caregiver. There are no licenses to buy to make me legal to do so. To be a processor, you can not be a legal patient nor caregiver. This is very complicated, there is not an easy answer. And This Includes Water.

We already ran the game of illegalities of helping cancer and pediatric patients here. We fought and won the right to make and use resin products again. Now they are doing this with such huge jail terms. Folks will Drop OUT of helping any cancer patient, many are too sick to even grow, much less process their medicine. I wont' be able to help, my PTSD would not allow me to do something with the threat of these jail terms hanging. If I were to get a Felony, I could no longer help Any patient, much less a cancer patient.

 

 

[BalzaSteel 2,136]

4 hours ago, Justcozz said:

@BalzaSteel, I understand what you are getting at. Regulation for public safety. But I don't think it's for safety, safety is an excuse for tax profits. Cigarettes is a prime example, there is absolutely no disputing the fact that cigarettes kill people everyday. Yet the government doesn't stop tobacco use, it just keeps taxing it. They say they need the money to "educate", but the taxes go into general funds, not into education. Think about it, tobacco concentrates aka nicotine patches gum etc. is regulated and controlled by pharmaceutical companies. 

it's a good point, but you all you are seeing are the taxes, you're not seeing the thousands, maybe millions of jobs that would be lost if cigarettes were gotten rid of, it's not a perfect system, but the people relying on those jobs feel they have a right to them and if the politicians put them out of work by getting rid of tobacco they're not likely to get re elected are they?

4 hours ago, Justcozz said:

Having it illegal to make concentrates at home will not stop people from making it, but it will increase tax profits. The pharmaceutical companies are the ones pushing for more regulation on cannabis. They know they can no longer stop it from being legal, so they need it regulated. They want it restricted so much that they will be the only ones who can afford to produce it. 

Considering how heavily they've been regulated over the years can you blame them? you think government has their hand in the cookie jar over MMJ, lol, they've got their arm in big pharmas cookie jar all the way up to their freakin  ankles and have had for decades.

I don't know how it works there, but here a significant portion of the taxes collected on pharmaceuticals are used to subsidise the costs of medical care for those who are unable to afford it.

I doubt that making it illegal  will stop people from making concentrates any more then making weed illegal stopped people from growing, it certainly won't stop stupid people from blowing themselves up, but it will stop stupid peoples relatives from suing the government for letting them blow themselves up.

4 hours ago, Justcozz said:

The public is slowly moving away from smoking raw herb, oils and edibles are the future of cannabis. You can be sure, before the Feds approve it, big pharmaceutical will have major control over production. The pharmaceutical companies have been doing research on cannabis, trying to find compounds that they can say are unhealthy. Once this happens, they will patent the process of removing these compounds. Expect that all concentrates and edibles will be considered "medication". It will only be legal to produce and prescribe it under strict FDA guidelines written by big pharma. 

I hope I'm wrong, but I doubt it. 

@gardenartus, it sucks, but I think we will be lucky if weed gets regulated like alcohol. I expect it will be worse once the Feds approve it.

they just might, but I honestly doubt that they'll ever get rid of recreational now that the cat's got its nose out of the bag, too much money to be made and as you pointed out government lives and breathes taxes. Once it's accepted as a recreational drug it'll be pretty hard to get convictions on the medical side.

[BalzaSteel 2,136]

1 hour ago, gardenartus said:

We will just drop this whole thing, would take me too long to make anyone understand how bizarre this is. Cancer patients, some need 5 grams a day, Lets make rosin in the quantity, lets have them drink infused coconut oil, or butter products to the extent of that many mg needed.

I did not expect to get my head ripped off, but that is nothing new from BS, cause he almost always says BS to me.

not agreeing with everything you say is not ripping your head off, this is a forum, a place for discussion, people will disagree with your opinions, some will even say so,  deal with it.

 

[gardenartus 13,796]

Nah you  are an ass to me half the time, would prefer if you didn't even talk to me, but as you say this is a public forum. You;ve come at me a few times, acting like an ass. just ignore me, I do you, until you come at me.

[BalzaSteel 2,136]

Really? I "Came at you"? funny, as I recall it I disagreed with you and you got all buthurt and pasive aggresive and started calling me names, kind of like you're doing now.

 

Could it be possible that you feel "I'm coming at you" because you're under the influence of a drug who's main side effect is paranoia pretty much 24/7?

[gardenartus 13,796]

LOL typical Narcissist behavior lol 

[Gardener 2,161]

Let's rename this thread stoned arguments, say or post anything you want!

[BalzaSteel 2,136]

7 hours ago, gardenartus said:

LOL typical Narcissist behavior lol 

proves my point. 

[Gimme5minutes 942]

I'll go back to sleep.

[Damar 2,015]

On 4/17/2018 at 8:48 AM, webeblzr said:

The best time for me, early morning.

I wake up early naturally, so I start the fire and a pot of coffee going, and have about 1-2 hours before anyone is moving about.

So I  get to enjoy having a blistering hot cup of campfire coffee, a nice joint, and just gazing into the fire, getting all of the days pieces aligned in my minds eye.

But what I love the most is that roaring silence of the morning, occasionally interrupted by bird song, enjoying coffee and cannabis by a fire.

Just painted a picture in my mind, sir.

Hey everyone, please relax. I selected a quote from GA to quote from before the argument started, about how CO2 is a chemical.. I wanted to joke, we're arguing about this is a chemical and that's a chemical... isn't... everything a chemical?  For the record, I think both GA and BS have valid points, but the arguing is pointless. At the end of the day, whatever the LAW is, grow the fucking weed. Deep down, we all know that we don't need to have a lbs and lbs of weed for ourselves and the people we support. No one talks about the side hustle publically.

I suggest everyone goes to google, looks up PBS Spacetime, and watches a few videos and reflects on our arguments insignificance on the grand scale of things. Better to spend some time looking into a campfire while stoned.

 

[gardenartus 13,796]

LOL I think Peyton Place is a better fit lol

[Hempyfan 4,152]

2 hours ago, Damar said:

 

I suggest everyone goes to google, looks up PBS Spacetime, and watches a few videos and reflects on our arguments insignificance on the grand scale of things. Better to spend some time looking into a campfire while stoned.

 

 

http://culturalhealingandlife.com.www413.your-server.de/index.php?/forum/25-the-wiley-ape-the-story-of-human-society/

[Mr Goodfellow 12,402]

I never come away un-amazed when I visit that site. Thanks so much Hempy for all the work you and your friends put into that project. It's like having a couple or three college courses, disguised to look like another cool link with cool info. It's the best, Hempy! 

peace

mrG

[Gardener 2,161]

10 hours ago, Damar said:

Just painted a picture in my mind, sir.

Hey everyone, please relax. I selected a quote from GA to quote from before the argument started, about how CO2 is a chemical.. I wanted to joke, we're arguing about this is a chemical and that's a chemical... isn't... everything a chemical?  ...

 

Not everything is a chemical.  Energy is not chemical.  Although there are chemical energies. And, to the extent that space is a thing, it is also not chemical.  It is the expanse between, and even within, chemical things.

[Mr Goodfellow 12,402]

That was my point above. Heat and pressure are energy and force. Really, just energy. Not a chemical. 

peace

mrG

[Damar 2,015]

I see where my careless reading of GA's full post led to my poorly phrased post... Yes, there are extraction methods that don't use chemicals. I was more chuckling at water being a chemical... which it is, but we rarely describe it as such.

But I'll now refer you guys back to PBS Spacetime, where one can learn a lot more about energy and forces. My interest has recently revolved around quantum mechanics, and I feel they do a pretty good job of explaining it in layman's terms.

[gardenartus 13,796]

I sure caused a rucus and didn't mean too! lol Just trying to let you all know, even when legal We Are Still Fighting the law They need to take this off the schedule in the states and make it fair trade to the world. And it truly sucks, this will take me right out from helping cancer patients as well as others helping. Our law was made to protect patients, their laws they are creating does the opposite.

I have gastorpasis, I can't eat a lot, if I ate as much in infused coconut oil or ghee products, I would chuck it up lol Oil is about the only thing I can do, and when sick that is even hard to keep down, so up the bum it goes lol.

Sometimes there is a lot of complications to ones story

[Mr Goodfellow 12,402]

like

 

[webeblzr 2,205]

Well we should be able to express our ideas about any subject, and those on either side, (me included) need to always try and see the others view. We may not accept it, we may be horrified by it. But in today's world, diplomacy is usually used after an ugly war/fight not before it.

Concerning this issue, on extractions, I can see both sides of this issue. I know I do not want to live beside someone doing heat type extractions without training. 

From all my years of reading on the boards, I do think there is a sweet spot for both sides of this issue.

I'm guessing, but around 2003 to maybe 05 or so, when reading around on OverGrow, I remember reading the one moderator Sportster (maybe)  was teaching a hash making class at one of the community colleges. So folks wanting to make it, would have proper experience do so. Yes totally different issue, but they found a way to work out that issue.

So if a state that has MMJ, and they decided to allow a caregivers to make extractions, for only their patients, then they should, through the taxes they (CG) helped create, should give the CG's the knowledge they need to do it responsibly.....but only for their patients. 

To just come along and say no more to a common extraction technique, that is safe when done properly, that from now on only certifiable and licensed up business can make that, seems a bit  discriminatory. The CG job was clearly established, with rules and guidelines the CG must follow and have done so, should not be punished for the few numbskulls that did not.

I would be screaming to the states Attorney General, that CG'ers was created to serve the patients, and for however many years that went on, that time must be realized during times of change, or revamping the laws.

CG'ers livelihoods should be protected as these folks used their own time and money to set them up. Then complied to the rules and guidelines of the state. Now to be booted from the process with any due diligence is just wrong, when solutions are abundant. Maybe solutions that are not normal, but still are workable.

As a vocational trained welding dude, back in the early 70's, the only welding certifications was from employers. You would get a pre employment weld test, if you passed it, that got you into their certification program. You usually had 2 weeks to pass the test, for your certification. I usually spent a few hours in those courses, as my shop teacher, made us pass every test he knew about, if you wanted to work in industry for your 2 weeks of shop class. I passed them by the end of 11th grade, and went to work.

I personally do not think certifications do all that much, the news is full of stuff that happens and everything is certifiable now, so how do folks get sucked of planes, and how do walk way bridges fall killing people, as I'm positive everyone involved was paper up to their eyeballs? 

I think a bit of common sense is needed to correct the injustices of a state sanctioned CareGiver position, that will be under great financial duress to continue to help folks. Give them the training, credentials to take care of their patients needs as cost effective solution, to a knee jerk reaction without full thinking of all aspects.

Just my $.02

[gardenartus 13,796]

Very well said, appreciate very much what you wrote here Web.

[baqualin 4,837]

3 hours ago, webeblzr said:

Well we should be able to express our ideas about any subject, and those on either side, (me included) need to always try and see the others view. We may not accept it, we may be horrified by it. But in today's world, diplomacy is usually used after an ugly war/fight not before it.

Concerning this issue, on extractions, I can see both sides of this issue. I know I do not want to live beside someone doing heat type extractions without training. 

From all my years of reading on the boards, I do think there is a sweet spot for both sides of this issue.

I'm guessing, but around 2003 to maybe 05 or so, when reading around on OverGrow, I remember reading the one moderator Sportster (maybe)  was teaching a hash making class at one of the community colleges. So folks wanting to make it, would have proper experience do so. Yes totally different issue, but they found a way to work out that issue.

So if a state that has MMJ, and they decided to allow a caregivers to make extractions, for only their patients, then they should, through the taxes they (CG) helped create, should give the CG's the knowledge they need to do it responsibly.....but only for their patients. 

To just come along and say no more to a common extraction technique, that is safe when done properly, that from now on only certifiable and licensed up business can make that, seems a bit  discriminatory. The CG job was clearly established, with rules and guidelines the CG must follow and have done so, should not be punished for the few numbskulls that did not.

I would be screaming to the states Attorney General, that CG'ers was created to serve the patients, and for however many years that went on, that time must be realized during times of change, or revamping the laws.

CG'ers livelihoods should be protected as these folks used their own time and money to set them up. Then complied to the rules and guidelines of the state. Now to be booted from the process with any due diligence is just wrong, when solutions are abundant. Maybe solutions that are not normal, but still are workable.

As a vocational trained welding dude, back in the early 70's, the only welding certifications was from employers. You would get a pre employment weld test, if you passed it, that got you into their certification program. You usually had 2 weeks to pass the test, for your certification. I usually spent a few hours in those courses, as my shop teacher, made us pass every test he knew about, if you wanted to work in industry for your 2 weeks of shop class. I passed them by the end of 11th grade, and went to work.

I personally do not think certifications do all that much, the news is full of stuff that happens and everything is certifiable now, so how do folks get sucked of planes, and how do walk way bridges fall killing people, as I'm positive everyone involved was paper up to their eyeballs? 

I think a bit of common sense is needed to correct the injustices of a state sanctioned CareGiver position, that will be under great financial duress to continue to help folks. Give them the training, credentials to take care of their patients needs as cost effective solution, to a knee jerk reaction without full thinking of all aspects.

Just my $.02

Oh I say say that was worth at least a couple hundred. Well said.

Baq