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SpaceCase

Broad mites? Thrip Larva?

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I posted a while back about a bug problem that I thought might be broad mites. Some of ya'll though it might be thrips. I didn't have any pics to show, but that has changed. :tu

First, a little garden background:

The strain is Critical Kush

The soil is organic with all kinds of meals and rock dusts, wormshit, composted cowshit, and peat moss. I used the very same soil out of the very same tub this past summer for a very successful crop. And many other successful crops with very similiar mixes. The same water too, which is a mix of 50/50 well water, tested and true, and R/0 water made from the well water. PH is 7.2, runoff is 6.4.

The temp with lights out is 65-68, lights on 75-80. The rh is prety consistent at 47-51% and I am not sure I want to go any higher than that because of a slight botryitis problem with this strain at the very end of last summer when the nights got cold and the humidity spiked.

 

As fort what I know about thrips, which isn't a hell of a lot, you can usually see the adults and the larva. Thats not the case here. :no There abosultely microscopic, you cannot see the infestation. There are no flying or jumping adults, just the occasional fumbling fungus gnats (I've scoped 'em, its a fungus gnat). The only thing apparent is nute deiffeciency, most of it at the bottom portion of the plant.

 

I've known about and have been treating the problem for 2 months now. Every ten days I have been blasting them with Einstein Oil, and that is keeping them in check, but now I am 25 days in and I'm not sure what neem oil will do to the buds. I've read online everything from you need to spray neem oil on your flowers every day, to neem oil will melt the trichomes of of them. :lol: I also introduced OG Biowar Foilar to the garden, it may have helped a little and certainly didn't harm anything.

 

These guys are probably what killed off a mother earlier this year and I had no idea what they were. Now the mother the Critical came fromisin sad shape, but thats because I got a little busy and lazy and fell short on the neem treatments with her. I think I might just let her go cuz I am sick of fighting these little shits.

 

Here are some pics of the little bastards and their eggs I took at 400x. What are they? :verryangry:

 

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egg2

Egg

 

And here are some pics of the garden and some affected leaves. For the most part the canopy looks in good shape, just a few leaves curling, but the bottom of the plants are looking a little rough around the leaf edges. :lol:

 

 

multi leaf

leaf discol3

leaf discol3

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leaf curl4

canopy

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leaf curl

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leaf curl3

 

Heres another one of the little bastards I found going about his business fucking my life up. You can see very clearly what looks to me like four distinct arms on the little guy. I actually got a few 2 minute videos of this guy, but I don't think I can post vides?

 

 

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So what do ya'll think? What are they? Is there something else at play here I am not thinking of? Is it safe to neem these creepy little bastards again? Thanks for any ideas. :shifty:

There is probably a better way to put these images into a thread, I notice now that when you click on them you're just brought to the gallery uploaded them too. :lol: I open to suggestion in that department too. Bare with me I'm learning. :D

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Thrips. Although the leaf curl could indicate that you have a brood of mites (not broad mites haha) living underneath, thrips do note parachute leaves like that.

 

Thrips will leave a damage on the leaves that look like yellow squiggly marks, dots and dashes.

 

Yellow sticky traps hanging mid plant will attract the adults, as for the young ones you might want to go with straight up spinosad.

 

I would stay away form pyrethrums if all of your girls are that far into flower production. The shit is lethal for bud development.

 

 

Increase the humidity and cool the room to lower range 70's. (hot and dry rooms are thrips havens).

 

 

All the best

RM

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Then Google would know you have thrips

 

Oh hell, now they think I've got them

lol

 

You can post a vid to YouTube and link to it from here like you would a pic.

 

I may do just that. . . . can't tell its an mj leaf in the vid anyhow.

 

Thrips. Although the leaf curl could indicate that you have a brood of mites (not broad mites haha) living underneath, thrips do note parachute leaves like that.

 

Thrips will leave a damage on the leaves that look like yellow squiggly marks, dots and dashes.

 

Yellow sticky traps hanging mid plant will attract the adults, as for the young ones you might want to go with straight up spinosad.

 

I would stay away form pyrethrums if all of your girls are that far into flower production. The shit is lethal for bud development.

 

 

Increase the humidity and cool the room to lower range 70's. (hot and dry rooms are thrips havens).

 

 

All the best

RM

 

Thanks for the ideas, man.

 

Thanks to everyone for the input! :tu

I have been scoping the leaves, and doing underbrush and canopy inspections daily and still haven't found a single adult thrip. Should I bee able to see them with the naked eye? How bout the larva, shouldn't I bee able to see them without a scope?

I'll hang some sticky traps today and see if anything sticks to 'em. I also try to lower the temp and look into spinosad.

I have Einstein Oil already and have been using it successfully to control these little pests, what do ya'll think about a neem treatment 26 days into flowering?

Thanks again!

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Hello, Spacecase and thanks for posting those pics.

 

Many people (myself included) are hesitant to post pics that don't show their plants/grow setup in anything other than ideal condition.

 

I have noticed these symptoms and many others on my plants in the past and never said anything. Then I began reading about all these different things in the threads and trying new stuff because other members chime in with knowledge and ideas.

 

Just starting my new regime and it's a few weeks in...

 

I grabbed some pyrethrin concentrate

 

and also a bottle of spinosad (Capt Jack's Deadbug), which the label says is "derived from a naturally occuring soil dwelling bacterium that was collected from an abandoned rum distillery in the Caribbean in 1982. It was defined as a new species when it was discovered and it has never been found in nature anywhere else in the world..."

 

I also picked up some horsetail tea at a local health food store.

 

Sprayed the veg room down and anything that was still very early in flo (less than 2wks) with pyrethin for three days straight,making sure to get full coverage of the leaves, top and bottom.

 

Mechanical removal is sometimes necessary when you are attempting to rid your garden of pests, and a gentle wiping of the leaf surfaces with a bucket of warm water that has a few drops of dishsoap works well.

 

After three days I rinsed everything with a liberal dousing of horsetail tea. Two tea bags in a pot of boiling water and let steep. I gradually increased the strength of the tea over a few days, keeping the old teabags and reusing them with the new mix. I let it steep over night each time I add another two teabags.

 

Horsetail tea was recommended by another grower that posts here sometimes - pretty sure it was Weedmon. It is high in silica and this also strengthens the plant and helps with nutrient uptake. I have also taken to spraying the plants with the horsetail tea, literally soaking them with no ill effects thus far. I wouldn't recommend that to anyone else, my room is VERY DRY and the plants dry off in minutes after soaking them with this tea.

 

another three days of pyrethrin, rinse and then an application of spinosad. I was going to do the three days/rinse/three days with the spinosad as well, but the bottle specifically says to limit the number of applications, so once it was.

 

Everything that was infected/affected has seemed to clear up so far and not a trace of thrips or pm anywhere...

 

 

Mind you, my room is completely open to anything, as the intake has not been set up with a filtration system and there always seems to be some sort of little bugs n such in any of the dirt. Not to mention that I regularly take in cuttings from outside sources to keep the lineup fresh, so basically what I'm saying (forgive the stoned rambling) is that my room is pretty "dirty" compared to most of the grows I see posted here.

 

If this method works in my room, it should pretty damn well work anywhere...

 

So far so good!

 

Oh yeah - there may be others who disagree, but I think neem application this late in the game is not a good idea. Get some nematodes and ladybugs and stay on top of it until harvest

 

just my .02

 

I mean 2 dollars!

 

haha

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You will be able to see thrips at all stages with your eye. Take a look in the soil if you're not finding anything on the leaves.

 

Thrips look a bit worm-like when they move, there is no mistaking them.

 

EDIT: I agree with mad regarding neem. Unless there is a serious infestation, the stage of those flowers formation will cause issues when neem is applied. The biggest thing is that you'll never get rid of the taste. Also, I've always found that killing off pistils early on in development retards the production quite a bit.

 

Whether that's a deal breaker or not is completely up to you :)

 

Peace and all the best,

RM

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Reverend and Mad graci! :verrygood

Spinosad sounds like the ticket or at least worth trying. Lady bugs too!

 

You will be able to see thrips at all stages with your eye. Take a look in the soil if you're not finding anything on the leaves.

 

 

The pictures of that bug are at 400x, to my naked eye they are invisible, I can't see them and my vision is not blurry lol, thats why I am concerned that it might not be thrips, but I am no biologist. :D

Thanks again!

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Hey SpaceCase,

 

I wanted posted before when I've read your first post but cause I'm not sure finally I didn't posted...

By seeing your bugs pics I can't see mites, pics aren't very clear but the bugs shown looks like thrips.

From an other side being infected by cyclamen or broad mites at certain moment since a while, your leaves pics look like symptoms of broad mites but really at beginning of the infestation. (your plant pics look great not very infected)

Have you already tried to spray some mites product on your plants ? Generally some days later when cyclamen are there the plants react bad with the mites stings and toxin injected in the stems.

You can see also the meristem changing, with eggs point (making relief) on the stem intersection, also after the stem looks soft and greasy. On clone or seedlings you can see also that rooting is different (can appears better, finally not being infected) with the part under cotyledon making awesome roots starts (certainly the results of broad mites hormones). At this step you can consider to be really infected now the plants make many stem and leaves deformations, burning, very curled and up and down (much more than you shown).

But you certainly better to react now if they are really there cause it is more than difficult to treat definitely.

If you don't have any product to try a treatment, just crush very well (not cut I said crush) some garlic and let it stir an hour in boiling water, let cooling a bit adjust pH and spray your plants very well near the roots the stem under leaves etc.

You will see some day later if you really infected... let us to know later if the plant react with the hormone toxin. ;)

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hiwatt! Thank You for posting on this thread, your thread about eradicating broad mites is very comprehensive and is one of the main reasons I wanted to join Opengrow.

I am just going to pretend I have them even if I don't. :tu

:kill: Time do die ASSHOLES!.

Unfortunately this has to happen during the holidays when I am expected elsewhere, so I won't get to try any of these things unitl tomorrow. Hopefully I won't be kicking myself in the ass to hard. :lol: Thanks to everyone!

 

Here's a link to a video of the bug. Its at 400x as well. It quite a bit clearer than the pics. I think when I converted the pics from .bng to .png some resolution was lost.

 

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Thanks man ! ;)

Here is a link to an album from my gallery when my plants were very infected after having enter cyclamen mites in my indoor from strawberry and others outdoor garden plants. When I've realized they were there, things go too fast so you can see fucking awesome stems and leaves deformations, eggs etc.

 

 

Also to post Youtube video just erase the "s" from the https youtube link (short link) and copy it, press the Special BBcode button (third button on top left) then choose media and paste the link in media URL. (or between [/media])

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUFxJWTjPts

 

See you there !

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My opinion is those aren't broad mites (too worm like) and they're definitely not thrips at any stage of life. ReverendMaynard is correct when he said you can see then without magnification and not to mention the legs and body really look nothing like them..the way it moved in the video was the clincher for me...thrips are worm like when they move but they are fast and will move with a purpose.

Spinosad can't hurt but I do believe you have another pest altogether. Have you considered nematodes as a means of eradication?

 

Try asking an entomologist...in fact there's one on youtube. "ask an entomologist" he's got a phd in entomology so he's your best bet for a definitive answer and solution. ...imo you don't want to be spraying neem on fully developed flowers.

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My opinion is those aren't broad mites (too worm like) and they're definitely not thrips at any stage of life. ReverendMaynard is correct when he said you can see then without magnification and not to mention the legs and body really look nothing like them..the way it moved in the video was the clincher for me...thrips are worm like when they move but they are fast and will move with a purpose.

Spinosad can't hurt but I do believe you have another pest altogether. Have you considered nematodes as a means of eradication?

 

Try asking an entomologist...in fact there's one on youtube. "ask an entomologist" he's got a phd in entomology so he's your best bet for a definitive answer and solution. ...imo you don't want to be spraying neem on fully developed flowers.

 

Thanks for the tip about the entomologist. :tu Definitely going to hit that guy up for some info.

I decided against neem, and hit the little buggers with an OG Biowar tea recipe (minus the molasses) from the manufacturers website. That did it, all are dead when I scope them and it looks like my girls will survive, though I am sure I am going to loose some weight. :verryangry: Take the good with the bad I guess.

Unless the bug guy has a better idea, I'll hit em with spinosad a week from now and then OG biowar a week after and with any luck I should be in the clear.

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I was thinking the bugs shown look like a thrips but it is weird that you can't see them...

Aside some people said you broad, cyclamen or russet mites are round, this is false... They are so much species !

Hemp russet mites (Aculpos cannabicola) looks almost exactly like the one you shown.

You can see it on the second page (In fact 82) of this pdf : http://www.doiserbia...6640701081P.pdf

Also well documented in this recent article: http://www.beyondthc...ps-cannabicola/

But if you use the products you said before, I think you're on the good way despite they are real pain in the ass ! :whip:

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I was thinking the bugs shown look like a thrips but it is weird that you can't see them...

Aside some people said you broad, cyclamen or russet mites are round, this is false... They are so much species !

Hemp russet mites (Aculpos cannabicola) looks almost exactly like the one you shown.

You can see it on the second page (In fact 82) of this pdf : http://www.doiserbia...6640701081P.pdf

Also well documented in this recent article: http://www.beyondthc...ps-cannabicola/

But if you use the products you said just before I think you're on the good way spite of they are real pain in the ass ! :whip:

 

I am in 100 percent agreement with you. These mfers are Hemp Russets, and I am pretty sure the same little shits wiped out my tomato crop outside last summer, the light bulb just went on :pi_lightbulb:

In case others read this with the same concerns, here is a few good pics of Hemp Russet Mites to go along with the great info that hiwatt posted above.

Looks like I am in for a constant pain in the ass for quite some time, maybe forever :angry:.

 

EriophyidMite1

Eriophyidae Bindweed Gall Mite USDA ARS Bugwood

 

Hemp Russet mites are a sub species of the Eriophyid mite to clear things up

At least I know my enemy now. I ordered about every miticide under the sun to attack my rooms with. I have seedlings started in the far corner of my house, I hope the little bastards don't find them lol.

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Thanks for the tip about the entomologist. :tu Definitely going to hit that guy up for some info.

I decided against neem, and hit the little buggers with an OG Biowar tea recipe (minus the molasses) from the manufacturers website. That did it, all are dead when I scope them and it looks like my girls will survive, though I am sure I am going to loose some weight. :verryangry: Take the good with the bad I guess.

Unless the bug guy has a better idea, I'll hit em with spinosad a week from now and then OG biowar a week after and with any luck I should be in the clear.

 

If you really infested, like I said before in the spraying the mites are chocked and pricked the plants, later stings bring discolorations, gals or deformations. You must see it faster if infested... I same see this when I spray concentrated garlic emulsion or black soap treatment. I was seeing same more in the beginning when i had sprayed Bayer Masaï others similar chemicals...

Do you see any deformation now with the products applied ? I'm with you bro^^ ! ;)

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The bug "expert" told me they were thrips LMFAO

Ill look for deformations and post some pics if I see any hiwatt.

good lord...i hope you let him know that he's in the wrong line of work if he thinks those are thrips...after looking at the links hiwatt provided I too agree they're mites. I didn't realize there were so many kinds...battle on bro.
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I don't see any deformations as of yet, the only thing I am noticing is that a lot of the pistils on the lower flowers are turning brown prematurely, and some of the top flowers are showing the same signs. Also, pistil production is seemingly standing still.

I scoped a couple of these early browning buds yesterday and sure enough, hemp russets had invaded them.

I then I mixed up a batch of Captain Jacks Dead Bug (active ingredient Spinosad) as per the instructions and sprayed a couple of the buds with the browning pistils.

Today when I scoped the same buds, the little mfers were still alive, giving me the finger and laughing at me. :wacko:

Now I am unsure what to do. Possibly a hiwatt garlic special for the little guys. :tu Maybe some Mighty Wash or Flying Skull Nuke 'em. Maybe all three.

Fuckers are getting me a little worried now, I have 21 days left which is starting to seem like an eternity. :o

Ill post again to see if my next treatment of choice has any effect, positive or negative.

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Sulfur can work for a moment but it's safer not spraying it on buds, I have used it in veg until the 2nd week of flowering.

For me same with sulfur the mites are coming back unfortunately, it makes a good alternative and natural treatment used with others.

I believe you've spoken of tomatoes SpaceCase, outdoor they love sulfur or Bordeaux mixture. :)

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