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OldSchoolBud

Found some long lost, old school genetics

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So, I'm doing a bit of organizing and cleaning, and lo and behold, I came across an old greeting card from 12 to 13 years ago. I open it up, and it's a card from back when Heaven's Stairway had their auction site.

 

I got three packs of very old seeds, with some promising old school genetics. Not sure who made them, but at the time I only bought from the most reputable of breeders......I was a bit of a pot snob at the time. So, what did I find in this time capsule?

 

1 pack of Blackberry Kush

1 pack of ((Haze x Skunk) x Haze) X Bubba Kush

1 pack of (Haze x Skunk) X Genius (Oh yeah......this one excites me, since I always liked C99)

 

Not quite ready to try and sprout these just yet. So guess I'll have plenty of time to research the best methods of sprouting old seeds. Any pointers or suggestions would be welcome. I've never tried spouting seeds this old.

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Gibberellic acid (also called Gibberellin A3, GA, and GA3) is supposed to help. Its also used to reverse a female to produce pollen.

Later in the year I'm going to get some (its cheap) to germ some old seeds I've got.

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I may be mistaken but: Isn't G.A. also used to create genetic mutations in plants by pretreating seeds with it? If I remember correctly from a book I read i the kate 90's G.A. was one of the substances used on thousands of seeds @ a time to catalyze mutations. Of the few that could germinate they were supposedly mutated. According to the book things like polyploids, double tap roots, leaf flowering, etc. I think the idea was to find that one in a million plant with an awesome mutation.

 

From my understanding, there are many methods for germing old seeds. Google/Bing/Whatever search online. I recently failed to pop 15 really old Soma A+ seeds that were gifted me from a relative who refound them in his attic. ;( I've heard a couple people swear by a seed soak in an oxegenated kelp/humic solution and a specific temp.

 

(Haze X Skunk) X Genius sounds like it would be interesting.

Thanks,

Passion

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G.A. is a growth exhibitor gp, so it can and will cause mutations when applied at certain phases but when it's used methodically, it will cause massive growth explosion.

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all three of those sound very promising, hoping you get a good germ rate. but man that's a loooong time without being in a fridge.

 

i would use some fine sandpaper on their seems to help any that still have a spark of life to pop the hatch.

 

i've never used gibberelic acid but for something like these it sounds like a reasonable idea. can't recall from what i read many years ago what the proper amount to use is though, i would guess somewhere in the 100 - 300 ppm range.

 

do you ever take moon phase into account for when you start beans? most of the time i don't bother when beans are less than 3 years old and been properly stored. but i'll wait for a full moon anytime their's a question of viability.

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Dry seeds are dormant... seeds that have been dormant for many years may require a seed soak to re-hydrate the seed before it can germinate. Most seed soaks maintain that you soak the seeds for 12-24 hours... seeds 15-20 years or older may require up to a 48 hour soak. Hot tap water may be used for the soak... fill a bowl with hot tap water, add the seeds to the bowl and let them soak as the water cools.

 

A Humic acid solution of 1/4 tsp per gallon of water can have good results.

 

Seaweed/Kelp solutions are common seed soaks that work well and give the seedling a boost.

 

Studies show that the use of GA on old seeds has commonly improved germination rates. GAs are safe and are already found in cannabis... Gibberellic acid controls sex differentiation in cannabis plants. GA's are found in most plants and just about every vegetable you eat.

 

Whatever method you choose to use, I wish you good luck... I know how hard it can be to germinate old seeds. I'm sure you'll get something to pop out of those packs, 12-13 yrs isn't too long.

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I have heard that when you soak them they will float if they are dry, and when they sink they should not stay submerged for too long.

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Keep in mind that it IS possible to drown seeds by soaking them too long. A waterlogged seed will not germinate.

 

A lot of "floaters" are immature or incomplete seeds that would never germinate anyway. It's important to change the water the seeds are soaking in daily. If you're using the hot tap water method, this is only done with the first initial soak to help break down the growth inhibitors... any subsequent hot water soaks will harm the seed and it's contents causing germination to fail.

 

Have you ever heard of seed scarification?

Lightly scuff the edges/body of the seed with sandpaper.This helps by removing some of the growth inhibitor coating on the seed and allowing moisture to become absorbed more easily by the seed coating, improving the chances of germination. After you have scarified the seeds soak them in warm water. This method can ready the seeds quicker and improve germination rates on old seeds. This method is normally used with vegetable seeds or beans, but it will work on cannabis seeds too.... especially dark brown/black seeds that have thicker shells.

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Patience, mainly. They may need more encouragement, but will most likely require more patience.

 

Fresh seeds will pop out and shoot up, eager to grow.

 

Older seeds will wait for the perfect climate to ensure growth.

 

You may have to baby them more, but be patient.

 

Think of a human having a child toward the end of her fertility cycle, as opposed to a young woman.

 

More assisted birthing techniques may be in order, and the child may come out later in order to be fully developed.

 

Incubation and intubation could be necessary. Etc.

 

You get the metaphor.

 

A steady 70-74 degrees, growth supplements,etc. The suggestions here are all great!

 

As for the moon cycle thing. I agree. I tend to start seeds on full moons and cuts on new moons.

 

The reason being: The moon's Gravity/magnetism is at its peak on the full moon, encouraging the seedling to sprout.

 

Whereas the moon's gravity is at its lowpoint during the new moon, encouraging roots to find their way into the earth and follow the earth's gravity. This also works with sprouts that have been planted on the full moon. It's all about gravity's effects on the water, and the organism itself. Since the organism is mostly water, that is kind of a redundant statement.

 

Yeah Barney, once the air is out of the shell, the roots will eventually drown and damp out if submerged too long. Oxygen is necessary for roots to form.

 

Best of luck!!! Awesome find! You could always start with one or two in plain water to see how they do, and what it's going to take. That way, you may feel more confident in sprouting the rest of them, and in whatever method you may need to choose.

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Good luck OSB. I have been working through some old seeds I have from 10 years ago, and haven't been able to crack a single one yet. Loving this thread, giving me some new angles to crack some of these old Cali Orang Crosses I stumbled upon....

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Could be that planting them directly into soil (I mean good topsoil with all of its natural building blocks) would give old seeds their best chance.

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Here's a post from someone who actually knows for sure... Liz Weir:

 

 

 

Here is the method I use. I just successfully germinated seeds I saved from 18 years ago and some seeds that were about 9 years old.

 

First, the original post I saved from CW:

 

 

 

Quote: ...in general old and outdated seeds use up their nutrient reserve within the endosperm. To counteract such 'depletion', it wise (if not rule of thumb) to soak in a phytohormone solution that not only contains GA but also auxins.

 

Through the university, I have been exposed to a 'germination bomb' that coincidentally was the same university Steve Tuck attended and learned the same technique (contrary to what he would tell you). Here's what he stated about it @ OG during his stint and simply, it is as follows:

 

"Also here's a free bone for all you old schoolers, while in collage me and a buddy developed a pressure bomb to open/germinate really old seeds. I have taught this trick to a few friends who were amazed at how well it works but neccesity is the mother of invention, here's how it works at home.

Take an old mayonaise jar and punch a hole in the top a little bit bigger than an aquarium bubbler hose, and run one through it, silicone all around hose on both sides and allow to dry overnight. Now put a little bubbler air blower in it with a stone on end. Now fill with water and 10 drops of superthrive or simular concentrated b1 solution. Next use 10 drops of DMSO per 8 oz.'s of water, float old seeds on top and screw lid on tight, run moter for 24-48 hours to build a little pressure to imbibe fluid in seeds then place on 90 degree F wet dirt and they will usually get a good percentage of those with a spark left in them, let stay at that temp for 3-4 weeks in dirt as some may be slow to respond. You should be able to get DMSO from a pharmacy. And personally I like to add a little sugar water as old seed loses it's carbohydrates over time. If you cannot find B1, a kelp based mixture will work as well."

 

The nutrient solution he stated can, obviously, be replaced by the natural banquet of hormones in kelp (like 3LB & VC stated). This 'germination bomb' essentially covers each mode of seed scarification in heat, pressure, and water. The air pump provides constant agitation which in turns creates oxygen which is the most abundant element needing in root formation. I have improved my germination by easily 80% since using this technique. I grow solely landrace and heirloom cultivars so needless to say most seeds I posses are old and require special attention.

 

What's great about it is, that if the seeds sink - they're viable. And as I stated, this germination bomb covers all forms of scarification. In my mind, it is the ONLY way to germinate seeds.

 

And oh yea, DONT USE PAPER TOWELS! Yes, they may work and get the job done(for freshly produced hybrids). But it is an artifical medium and devoid of the microbes necessary to break down (tough, old) seed coats.

 

For a germination medium I use worm castings and mychorrizal innoculated perlite. Here is my specific method:

 

You need an aquarium air pump, air hose, a small air stone, a Mason or jelly jar, and some silicon sealant.

 

To prepare the mason jar: Drill a hole in the lid just large enough to pass an air hose through (set the lid on top of a piece of scrap wood to make it easier). Put a small air stone on the bottom of the hose & adjust the length of the hose inside the jar so that the airstone just touches the bottom of the jar. Seal around the hose on the top & bottom sides of the lid with silicone; allow to cure.

 

The jars are filled halfway with water (8 oz). I use RO water.

 

Put in each jar (this amount to 8 oz water):

10 drops Superthrive

1cc molasses (from the grocery store, a previous experiment using horticultural molasses resulted in a problem with mold)

1 tsp 3% hydrogen peroxide

13 drops DMSO (can be purchased from feed stores, Tractor Supply Co, or online from this website (remove spaces for the link) jefferspet. Com / products/ dmso

 

The jars are set on top of a seedling heat mat to keep them warm with a towel draped over the top to block light.

 

The DMSO is essential - it facilitates absorption of the water and nutrients. You do not need to scuff seeds with this method, but can if you want.

 

Hook the jar up to an air pump. I only leave the seeds in the pressure jar for 32-36 hours, no longer; you can literally drown them if you leave them in too long.

 

Transplant to your preferred germinating medium. I like perlite with a pinch of vermiculite just around the seed and I run them on my E&F system with mild nutes and a bit more molasses to provide carbs for the seedling.

 

I've been planning on posting a thread with this info, photos, and the results of the experiments I've done so far. I hope this helps in the meantime.

__________________

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I had posted an article on how steve tuck germed old seeds. pretty sure i posted it on this site, and at cannetics.

yet, i just ran across this link online searching for that original article. seems like i hit the jackpot, by finding this link that has pictures

included. i hope this helps you, others, and myself when it's prime time.

 

https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/germination-bomb-for-old-or-difficult-seeds.67454/

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You should have a read through this crazy stuff electrocuting your seeds will bring old ones back to life

 

 

I saw that movie, too.

 

gallery_3138_1947_37798.jpg

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No, I think it was, uh... Young, uh, Young something... Blazing Saddles. Yeah, that was it.

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If you've seen the old, original Frankenstein and Bride of Frankenstein movies, Young Frankenstein is hilarious, because it's a parody of them.

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I have been hearing some wild and very cool things about electricity and talking with plants. Perhaps one day we can have a system where the plant talks to a machine and the machine doses the plant with what it needs. To the point of advanced nutrition for the applicable plant stage dictated by the plants biological process/growing stages.

 

Imagine that.

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interesting for sure- elecromecanical botany... sounds like a future thesis for a U.C. Berkley student.

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