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MouseE

First time breeding vision. Tips appreciated

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I don't normally drink coffee, but when I do, my mind starts racin like a motha fucka.

 

I've never bred before but it's something I feel passionate about and really want to get into, unfortunately I lack lights, space, along with plant limitations that make this extremely difficult.

 

However its almost spring so I'm thinking I can maybe make a seperate breeding chamber outside, although the conditions out here in the PNW are pretty harsh for growing cannibus (last year a crazy windstorm tore apart the hoop house I built and had all sorts of problems). I'm assuming though I can get some seeds before the crazy late fall weather hits.

 

Here's my vision.

 

I'm looking at a (hammerhead or hammer of dawn) x (killing fields) x Shackzilla

 

The purpose of the first is too add some nice colors and sativa influence to the hammer line, as well as knock up the potency and flavor to the killing fields, finding the perfect happy medium. Something that gives a noticeable body high but enough clear cerebral engergy not to induce insomnia an creative. As an artist who is always creating things, this is what I look for in most of strains (I also have insomnia so I also like to have a super heavy indica on deck....thats a little off topic though.....)

 

Next we add the shackzilla (I'm thinking I might replace this with drizellaxms universe though and select a universe dominate with purple hues to further solidify the purple I'm looking for) for more hazy sativa influences along with that nice and potent shack funk, probably leaning towards a SSH dominate pheno.

 

I only have 2 feminized shackzilla though so hopefully I will find what I'm looking for in those.

 

First question, is there cons to breeding feminized seeds? I'm all about reg seeds now but when I was first starting out I couldnt see any other option than fem. I'll have to order the rest of the strains so that shouldn't be a problem.

 

I'm planning on putting starting in my aero cloner, then putting all outside, then moving certain plants together I want breeding in an open polination or either isolating the male, collecting pollen, than brushing it on the females (or maybe shackzilla feminized?)

 

Any tips or suggestions on methods or crosses? Dos or Don'ts? I'm kinda unfamiliar with creating stabalized strains and what not, right now it seems the killing fields are in the F4, which to my understanding would mean alot of variety, especially when I want to cross them with other strains (I'm guessing most of what I mention are F2s?). Does this mean I should backcross the killing fields first to stablize the pheno I want before I go further?

 

So the final goal will be a fruity/hazey/funky tasting 70-90/10-30 sativ dom purplely green blue hybrid with a nice underbody high to keep the mind calm while focused and creative.

 

Thanks for stopping by! :icecream: :phone:

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A couple of thoughts:

It's hard to do multigenerational breeding to stabilize a strain without having large numbers of plants to select from and clone mothers that can be kept alive for a long time.

 

That being said, I've made a lot of f1 crosses from sanniesshop strains, and they all came out good for me with minimal Selection because the good breeders have already done a lot of selection for you.

 

It's fun as hell to do any level of breeding to try to customize your pot.

 

Some people would disagree, but according to Ed Rosenthal- and it makes sense- " an X chromosome is an X chromosome" and the seed does not know it has 2 moms. The feminized seed has the same genetic material as a female that had a mom and a dad. So I think it's okay to breed with fems because quality fems aren't hermaphroditic by nature. They are forced into hermaphrodism by extreme/ abnormal means. I would not breed with a plant that spontaneously hermied, because I think that's a genetic trait that could be passed on to its children.

 

Good luck and have fun.

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Ive always said, use the correctvstrains, the selections should be there. Genetics are what they are. Of course u want strong healthy plants to breed.

As far as breeding fems made with cs... I havent used em yet in strains, but Ive watched others use n grow off spring with no issues. Basic biology tells you if u use a male n a femmed female, 75% of seeds should be female. Thats generalizing but it is basic 3rd grade biology. Man, outdoors has been crazy all over the US the past few years. When ya go from droughts to floods in a season its hard to friggin pull off. If I were gonna breed outdoors, id wait til biglots have those cheap greenhouses on sadle, and choose ur fave male n female as they grow, when the male starts forming flowers, set up the greenhouse n keep em in there until pollination has occured. Keep em away from ur sensi plants. A lil pollen makes 1000s of seeds. Good luck bro. More power to anyone wantin to make their own crosses

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A man with a passion is a great thing, it has changed the course of history quite a few times.

 

Most humans "like" something in life. But few are actually passionate about anything. So to make it as far as you did mentally is a great accomplishment.

 

Clear your mind of everything, especially bullshit...then fill it with breeding. Everytime a good idea comes, write it down. Stay focused, don't expect too much on your first couple rounds, they will be for learning.

 

Birds of a feather flock together rite? So holler at all your fav breeders (if accessible) and just talk. Talk genetics, all day every day.

 

Also Idk how far you plan to go with this but if you want to start a real seed company then you need to study business and advertising and plan to promote the genetics for atleast a year before even thinking about launching. Idk breeding to well but business, yea I can run businesses in my sleep =)

 

Also don't be one of them asshole that use to be good. That use to have bomb genetics. Don't be that. Study seed banks and there history, even the ones that fell off or just have very bad reps. That way you are knowledgeable in both what causes success and what causes failure. Let no time be wasted by over planning. Some people sit around on forums for years planning and visioning but never acually get around to it. Don't do that either.

 

Hope any of this has helped.

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Good advice guys. I was planning on having 2 seperate mini green houses (you guys are right about the US here, shit gets crazy, especially where I live), one for males and one for females. Quick question, can I take pollen from a male and brush on different male pollen on different areas and get multiple crosses from the same mother?

 

Think I'mma follow Kamut on this and keep it simple with 2 stable strains, I can advance from there over the years.

Thanks Indi (omg out of likes!), cheap greenhouses are what I make lol!

I've seen your crosses, and they are dank, as well as pretty simple. Your actually one of the breeders thats really inspired me to start planning this shit out.

 

@StankyDank

Right now this is solely for the purpose of producing dank, although I would like to share my genetics with the world and make a living off it eventually. I am college so I got a little bit of business education. Doesn't seem too hard, you build a website, advertise, than promo promo promo.

 

Your absolutely right and I'm 100% with you on the assholes. Money can bring corruption, corruption can turn good people into douchebags. Fuck a GHS approach where you make one good strain, than a bunch of meh strains and sell through advertising and having a bunch of money, pushing out small time passionate visionaries and keeping them in the doghouse. I consider myself a grower from the soul, I do this cause I love this, and I love creating, and breeding is the way to do that.

 

The best merits come from producing something with love thats legit, and staying legit to inspire others while constantly raising the standard. When your old and dying material things are meaningless, it's the impact you've had on the world that determines your happiness at that point. I hope someone shoots if I ever go in the direction of these mindless corporate minded fucks. Fuck that. I have kids that look up to me, I have patients that need help, I have Opengrow members who have high hopes and expectations from me. That is my fuel, and I can't let them down!

 

Sooooooo too keep it simple I think I'll start with the first part, Killing Fields x Hammer of dawn. Work it til I get the sativa with a slight body high, purple color, and yummy fruitty taste, then stabalize, that should keep me busy for a while. Killing Fields is an f4, which means I'll have a lot of variety if I'm correct (especially with HoD, which is an F2 hybrid?), which means I'll have to backcross to stabalize after I find a correct pheno yes?

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You may have alot of variety, depends on how stable they are to begin with. Killing Fields eve at F4 is a pretty predictable plant. Ur cross, Im not too familiar with. If you've grown that cross and you had pretty uniform plants, then ur back to an F1 with the cross. If u know what buds and shit to predict on those, Id use a male. So many variables but Im assuming you mayve grown these strains. If theres variation in ur plants, and u choose 1 female thats ur fave, then yeah, there will be variation in offspring. Not a bad thing. Thats when breeders charge $150 a pack and say LOOK FOR THAT SPECIAL PHENO!!! LOL!!! I could mention quite a few asshat breeders that get way more respect around the world than they deserve, but Ill hold my opinion. Its why I like making F1s. If u get my F1, I can pretty much tell u what ur gonna get. Bigun took 2 of my crosses, made offspring then sent me some nugs off it...My god, Biguns Roadtrip was as good as any Ive made and better than most big breeders. I was very impressed...

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lol a lot of breeders come to mind in that $150 pack, although I can't bad mouth them because I've never grown a 150 pack, and probably never will (I mean please........)

"If u know what buds and shit to predict on those, Id use a male."

 

could you explain further? I'm not so sure what you mean by this.

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I mean if youve grown out the females, they had nice fat resinous buds, and the plants were mainly uniform, then Id choose a healthy male from that strain because the females show what that strain basically is. I believe in knowing the strain well enough to "breed" with it. Its my argument against growin 50 males to pick 1 to breed with. If u grew say 5 females, and u really liked the breed, no herms, then,u dont need a huge plant selection. U know what that strains about n what genetics are in there..

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Look up "Robert C Clarke Marijuana Botany" in google, it's a good starting place with a lot of the basic fundamentals of successful breeding. I completely agree with this statement too.

 

" an X chromosome is an X chromosome" and the seed does not know it has 2 moms. The feminized seed has the same genetic material as a female that had a mom and a dad. So I think it's okay to breed with fems because quality fems aren't hermaphroditic by nature. They are forced into hermaphrodism by extreme/ abnormal means. I would not breed with a plant that spontaneously hermied, because I think that's a genetic trait that could be passed on to its children.

 

Environmental stimuli doesn't change genetics. And making a female grow pollen sacks with colloidal silver, or gibberelic acid, doesn't force the plant to create male hormones that weren't already in your females, it stops the production of female hormones. After a few weeks without female hormones the plant reverts to male by default.

I like to go through as many plants as realistically possible, usually 3-5 dozen for me, before selecting a handful of girls to clone, reverse, and open pollinate. This way I'm removing phenos that I don't want in the strain, as opposed to trying to find two plants that recreate what I'm looking for.

 

As long as you keep notes your varietals should get better and better. When you stop keeping track of individual characteristics, and start mixing without a specific goal, you become one of them commercial breeders we all know and loathe. Cough cough, soma cough

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Look up "Robert C Clarke Marijuana Botany" in google, it's a good starting place with a lot of the basic fundamentals of successful breeding. I completely agree with this statement too.

 

 

Environmental stimuli doesn't change genetics. And making a female grow pollen sacks with colloidal silver, or gibberelic acid, doesn't force the plant to create male hormones that weren't already in your females, it stops the production of female hormones. After a few weeks without female hormones the plant reverts to male by default.

I like to go through as many plants as realistically possible, usually 3-5 dozen for me, before selecting a handful of girls to clone, reverse, and open pollinate. This way I'm removing phenos that I don't want in the strain, as opposed to trying to find two plants that recreate what I'm looking for.

 

As long as you keep notes your varietals should get better and better. When you stop keeping track of individual characteristics, and start mixing without a specific goal, you become one of them commercial breeders we all know and loathe. Cough cough, soma cough

Somas still alive???

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...and by the way, Chuca. Pollinating Sugar Punch with Ms. Universe pollen gave me some ideas. Because that's a great idea. Would love to see/hear about the cool results of that cross.

 

5 Chemo beans from JOTI by way of a sinister breeder that was smart enought to make some rad F1s. Thank you! Now at six weeks since germination, they all look identical. Looks like damn clones. Only difference is 3 different smells, 3 with a bitter chem smell, one pinecone diesel stinker and one sweet skunky coffee smelling plant. I would hesitate to call a strain IBL from 5 plants in veg. but it kinda looks like it to me too -other than the different smells. nice

 

I'm smoking on the Bluniverse again- astringent gin vanilla taste and yield is lower on this pheno but it's got the super happiest high. It's got a stronger indica dom high than Soliqueen (of course) but not slow-mo like Blue Magoo, just the clear up from the Ms. U like the Soliliqueen with some laugh ur ass off HuckKush/Magoo.

 

MouseE,

I also live in the PNW. For outdoors here you want mold resistance and either a 7 week flower cycle or a strain that starts putting blossoms on really early but takes 8 to 9 weeks. Easiest at first outside to grow the 7 or 8 week proven Canadian or Dutch. Woulda said Swedish also but the two oudoor types I ran ended with a green hemp taste even though they finished great. Gonna try a few reg. seed Herebei crosses this year. And I have a couple interesting fruity smellin males to make the magic. I'm not a breeder, but I think I'm gonna start chucking more. it's fun :) Currently working on trying to properly create a couple fem cross with pollen from a dank End1less Sky X LA C0nfidential crossed to both of my best Herijuana Jackberry ladies. I gotta remember not to overtoke sativas while I'm playing with pollen. I forgot to turn one of the wall fans off in the room @ first. Pollenated @ week 3. But the trio of SCROG Sugar Punch ladies, the Hazey LUI and the A+ take longer and didn't have pistil die off. There are a few other ladies that were a bit receptive. At least that one's a fun room and not a medical room.

 

-Passion

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@passion

i wanted to cross sp

but when i growd here

i could not pollinate here :)

needed unseeded bud for newyears eve :)

stil thinking of doing that tho

i got some sp beanz left

maybe somewhere in the future

i am gonna do another reg x fem cross

fem is gonna be Sugarpunch ofc :)

 

 

first i am gonna run my reg x fem= Ms.aztec cross for the third time

i also send some seeds to some members of the dutch forum for free

some of them are gonna make a growlog

if al go s well

i am gonna ask sannie if i could send them in as freebee s for the shop

 

after that lol

i am gonna make a regular cross

got so many strains to choose from

dont know wat to do yet

and still i have my eyes on more strains for my collection (strainwhore=strainaddicted =me)

still need to stalk some people from OG

that have made nice crosses and so on

when i have more time i am gonna do that :)

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great tips guys, thanks for the book reference Youngsta!

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don't pet burning dogs

 

 

Might be a good idea to look at breeding info for plants other than cannabis, being illegal cannabis info isn't as well researched or documented.

 

Stay Safe

 

BalzOut

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I have little time to really look at the thread right now but I just wanted to say this as I see Indican has been helping.

 

He is the guy you want to talk to on this. He has proven his bedroom ways sexing up the plants he works with. You are in good hands for that level of breeding.

 

He knows well how to work further, established lines, this is easier said than done and his work speaks not just because of the genetics but because he knows to an effective degree of appreciation of the old school ways for evaluating to speaking plant.

I bet he shit himself I said that but its true.

 

I am with him on the type of breeding he is doing that you do not need large plant numbers (what is a large number to one is small to another) to = something good to impressive. Those genes will not continue to breed like that typically with hybrid and hybrid and hybrid and hybrid sexing but this is not the goal of those lines.

 

More advance perspective, atleast that is what I tell myself anyways.

If I want to see a line (I would of researched it or their is a specific reason for it), I will run one pack of seeds. Pending what I see from that will tell me if I want to look further.

 

If I like what I see and have great interest, I will obtain greater number of seeds and learn the phenos, one pheno you initially liked may not be end choice so you want to run several to a handful of end selections, choice is made over many grows and stress testings not just by one grow, for more advanced breeding. You will know those plants as well as your kids for real. They will be your kids and not a plant if you get that stage. Most do not as it a whole other thing than the style and type of what you begin now.

 

Best starting tip for selecting a male as you will be take the best structured looking males that smell strong when you rub them with good leaf health.

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