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Lotus

Female vs male in parent selection?

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Hey all!

 

So I have been trying to find an answer to a question that may not have an answer. When picking a mom and dad for making seeds...are there characteristics that are more important for specifically a mom or dad? So basically...I assume you pick a female that has all things you want, or almost all things, like potency, yield and smell...then you pick the dad based on trichome production, structure and smell. Right?

 

I guess I am wondering if there are traits which are more dominantly passed down in male vs female. Like, can you use a heavily flowering male to add density and yield to a mom? Is this process half on facts and half based on intuition?

 

Basically...what I'm asking is, if I have 2 strains I decided I want to do selections with and then cross them...is there a best way to decide which strain I should be looking for a mom and which should be the dad?

 

Thank you to anyone able to enlighten me!!! :)

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...is there a best way to decide which strain I should be looking for a mom and which should be the dad?

 

It does not matter which side the male comes from.

the only bonus of the male is the y-chomosome,

It produces male offspring.

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Most traits are inherited equally though both parents.

If you are male, some traits are inherited only from your mother (x-linked traits) and a very small number of traits are inherited only from your father (y-linked traits).

Females inherit sex-linked traits equally from both parents, as they both give her an X chromosome.

 

 

I guess you are interested in the end product of the female cannabis plant...

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I believe Robert Connell Clare's breeding book says that some traits like taste and scent might be typically associated with the male or female parent. It's the best book on cannabis breeding that I'm aware of. The second best I've read on breeding is the dj short book. I think short says this too.

 

Supposedly big tight floral clusters on males leads to big tight flowers on the female offspring. Also, people say to pick the male who looks most like your desired female offspring ie short and bushy etc. You can smoke the males to see if you notice one that might be extra potent.

 

The hard thing is that the best male is the one that makes good daughters. And looks can be deceiving. I know a nerdy looking guy that has a hot daughter. And tracking many female offspring of multiple males is a challenge.

 

As a pollen chucking hack, I look for a male that looks "good" to me structurally, and maybe has better scent. I like healthy males, but wild, not-potent cannabis can be very healthy.

 

However, what fool on the hill is saying seems more scientific to me than saying 'aroma comes from the mom.' I can't think of anything in humans that only comes from or through the mom.

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Most traits are inherited equally though both parents.

If you are male, some traits are inherited only from your mother (x-linked traits) and a very small number of traits are inherited only from your father (y-linked traits).

Females inherit sex-linked traits equally from both parents, as they both give her an X chromosome.

 

 

I guess you are interested in the end product of the female cannabis plant...

 

Nice but the link is to human breeding... So to say lol. Do plants behave the same? I was thinking the best option for a small time hobby breeder would be to collect pollen from as many males as able to be grown... And pollinate different buds with each, then label and store pollen for later use. That is assuming there's no space to keep many miles alive long enough to grow and test its offspring. It also seems terribly males (if plants, like humans, inherit from from the mom than dad. That would mean you can have more control over female qualities, and could vastly improve an exotic female landrace that perhaps lacks what the male's mother had in abundance! So it's almost like focusing on breeding females, with the male a stepping stone used to fine tune and add a lil extra icing on the cake! Gonna go research plant biology lol.

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im interested in the answer to this also.in the past i didnt really get any satisfctory replies on the subject.look at fantasia threads it might help

 

Nice thanks for the tip I'll check it out! And yeah the reason i posted this question is because i tried many searches but it only got me as far as reading about what to look for in males... Lol

 

I believe Robert Connell Clare's breeding book says that some traits like taste and scent might be typically associated with the male or female parent.  It's the best book on cannabis breeding that I'm aware of.  The second best I've read on breeding is the dj short book.  I think short says this too.

 

Supposedly big tight floral clusters on males leads to big tight flowers on the female offspring.  Also, people say to pick the male who looks most like your desired female offspring ie short and bushy etc.  You can smoke the males to see if you notice one that might be extra potent.

 

The hard thing is that the best male is the one that makes good daughters.  And looks can be deceiving. I know a nerdy looking guy that has a hot daughter.  And tracking many female offspring of multiple males is a challenge.

 

As a pollen chucking hack, I look for a male that looks "good" to me structurally, and maybe has better scent.  I like healthy males, but wild, not-potent cannabis can be very healthy.

 

However, what fool on the hill is saying seems more scientific to me than saying 'aroma comes from the mom.'  I can't think of anything in humans that only comes from or through the mom.

 

Thank you! Just downloaded the pdf hehe. If it ends up helping me understand, I'll buy it official as contribution. =D

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There's always a little of both comes out, but usually its more like the female used with a hint of dad. Heri for instance will throw fuel scents, hardens up the nugs, and a few other special things heri does to females. In reverse, I made UK Blues female x heri male, then heri female x uk blues male. The uk x heri is blueberry'd out scent. The heri x uk is more like heri, fuely, earthy, with just slight bb scents. The best way to know which way to pollinate, besides just doin it, is know your strains and what to expect before making crosses. Then ul get expected outcomes. Usually lol

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I made UK Blues female x heri male, then heri female x uk blues male. The uk x heri is blueberry'd out scent. The heri x uk is more like heri, fuely, earthy, with just slight bb scents...

 

You see these differences because you used different individuals of hybrids.

 

@Lotus; why would it be different for plants?

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i also do not think it makes a huge difference. as FOTH already said, most

of the different expressions will become visible, due to different phenotypes

used (no male will be 100% like the female used in the 'reversed parents'-

cross, so the crosses will express differently).

 

also:

my 'chocolate ghost' has f.e. the male dominating the line to a big part.

it's hard to say what will dominate (that is specific to the genetics used).

 

that's why progeny-testing is essetial in any real serious breeding program.

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I believe Robert Connell Clare's breeding book says that some traits like taste and scent might be typically associated with the male or female parent. It's the best book on cannabis breeding that I'm aware of. The second best I've read on breeding is the dj short book. I think short says this too.

 

Shantibaba says it too, but these gurus never explained how that works.

 

I agree with Santero, it's all about the dominance of the genes.

But that has nothing to do with the gender.

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There's always a little of both comes out, but usually its more like the female used with a hint of dad. Heri for instance will throw fuel scents, hardens up the nugs, and a few other special things heri does to females.  In reverse, I made UK Blues female x heri male, then heri female x uk blues male.  The uk x heri is blueberry'd out scent.  The heri x uk is more like heri, fuely, earthy, with just slight bb scents.  The best way to know which way to pollinate, besides just doin it, is know your strains and what to expect before making crosses.  Then ul get expected outcomes.  Usually lol

 

Thanks a lot indican! Interesting! Were the characteristics added by the male dominant in that male's mom or the dad?

 

You see these differences because you used different individuals of hybrids.

 

@Lotus; why would it be different for plants?

I guess that's how little i know about the chromosome exchange that i didn't realize its uniform in all of biology... Seeing how hermaphroditism is common in plants vs humans lol. If they are in fact the same... Then that means female genes would be overall dominant though... Well more dominant in the female offspring. So for smoking and final product that is important. But for subsequent generations of inbreeding or selection, you would probably want to isolate a male not necessarily representative of the previous mom in its generation, but characteristics that are a refined version of its dad? Lol sorry I'm probably getting ahead of myself but I really want to grasp this well enough to feel confident going in. Thanks!

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i also do not think it makes a huge difference. as FOTH already said, most

of the different expressions will become visible, due to different phenotypes

used (no male will be 100% like the female used in the 'reversed parents'-

cross, so the crosses will express differently).

 

also:

my 'chocolate ghost' has f.e. the male dominating the line to a big part.

it's hard to say what will dominate (that is specific to the genetics used).

 

that's why progeny-testing is essetial in any real serious breeding program.

 

So the dominant chocolate ghost male passes characteristics similar to its mom? Also are the male offspring generally more representative of the mom or dad? Or is it more an even mixture? Although now we have to consider the recessive alernation too... Man lol the more i know, the more confusing... And the less i know...

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So the dominant chocolate ghost male passes characteristics similar to its mom? Also are the male offspring generally more representative of the mom or dad? Or is it more an even mixture? Although now we have to consider the recessive alernation too... Man lol the more i know, the more confusing... And the less i know...

 

There's also "co-dominance"

(example: red flower x white flower = pink flowers)

and "incomplete dominance"

(example: white flower x red flower = red flowers with white dots or stripes)

 

Confusing, isn't it?

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@FOTH

 

So basically there's no way of knowing unless you try. And even then you won't necessarily know but might not care to know because you got lucky. Lmao. I'd love to have the means to study this with thousands of plants!

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I would select the strain with the biggest calyxes to be the female, for practical reasons.

Big calyxes give big seeds.

I believe big seeds have an advantage (a better start) over small seeds.

 

If you plan on breeding Chihuahua's to Labrador's, it's best to have a female labrador, to avoid complications during pregnancy and delivery.

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Cool, thread, thanks. If you love growing, I think all us closet hacks dream of making their own strain, this has been enlightening.

 

On scents, I've been running Kali Mist seeds from a female, who hermied like a mofo (about 5 years ago now), and produced 100's of seeds. Obviously, this is not breeding stock. But, I've probably grown out 100 seeds or so, never had a male, and only had one hermie on me, and lots of killer Kali bud. But what I found fascinating was, the plants were all very uniform, which you'd expect from a hermied female, EXCEPT for the scent, and those were all over the map, from berry fruity, to watermelon spice, to toe jam skunk, to almost none. Oh, I forgot, I ran clones of the fruity one for awhile.

 

What fascinated was, SOOOOO, THIIIISSSSS is how the pros do it, sniffing a large batch of plants for the smell you like(or other traits), then hooking it up with a Dad, having a bunch of kids, finding the ones that have that smell, and doing it over again, until they all smell like you want?

 

I should live so long, lol.

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I've been collecting pollen from my El Monstre male for about a week now... the plant gives off a strong, sweet, fruity/cherry smell when handled. I'll be using this pollen to sweeten up a few female plants I have... it should add some potency and a stronger flavor to the offspring too.

 

The best way to learn about breeding is to do it, books on the subject may help, but they may also make things more complicated for a newer grower that wants to learn about breeding. Take it slow... there's a lot to remember.

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It is more easy as it seems, it only costs a lot of grow space and time !

 

Most of the times it starts with a female plant that fit the needs we are looking for, personally I like to choose at least 2 but rather 3-4 from the same strain and see what the offspring is going to be like. I try to make several crosses, what means I use different males on the same female and see what traits will be dominant from the female plant.

 

When this is done I know which female I want to use to breed seeds and what traits she will pass thru.

 

When looking for a male I already have a pretty good idea how I want the offspring should be and with this information I choose the male, now I make also several crosses with different males and the chosen female and grow the offspring to see what male fits the best on the chosen female.

 

The time to grow the different seed batches can take a long time but I am in the nice position to have a lot of grow friends and opengrow to test the outcome. What I like to do is use these seeds as as a freebee and watch what my customers think about them, in this way the seeds can be growed in different environments and feedback can be used to make better seeds.

 

The decisions what plants to use makes a breeder and every breeder will pick up different plants.

 

greetz sannie

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So in general, is it more rare to have a male plant drastically change the characteristics from the mom it seeded? I feel i never hear that a male caused a previously dense budded female to become airy budded in the offspring. It almost seems that the males always seem to add and never take away? Lol... Or is that just because most people just know which males to select?

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@sannie thank you sir! So you basically do double testing... First the female, then grow offspring with different males ONLY to see what she tends to pass on... So i guess using different strain males is a good idea here... THEN... when you find the girl you like, you cross the potential dads to see what they pass. Mmhhh... So with enough space, you could get a cross you like in 4 runs. Then you start making filials. That is, if you want to do it properly. Lol! Nice thanks for the advice!

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... then hooking it up with a Dad, having a bunch of kids, finding the ones that have that smell, and doing it over again, until they all smell like you want?

 

I should live so long, lol.

 

Breeding without males saves you half of that precious time.

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Breeding without males saves you half of that precious time.

 

Promoting the impure tempation are you? Lol. I still have not been able to get clarification on this: do colloidal silver reversed fems cause hermaphroditism? Or is the danger in genetically prone hermies? My instincts tell me genetic hermies, sadly, are out, because they've evolved in places with harsher climates and less of an immediate population. So to survive they hermied. Problem is, they may possess other unique qualities that are sought after...This leads into high altitude, photosynthesis sensitive, short season acclimated strains, which can hermie and autoflower unless all environmental conditions are met. My question is, genes present in pollen and calyx of a hermie plant are identically as dominant or recessive either way they express themselves? So hypothetically if another plant would also hermie...would the resulting cross, regardless of parentage sex, pass on genes identically? THESE ARE THE QUESTIONS THAT HURT MY HEAD!!!

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True hermaphrodites produce an equal amount of male and female flowers.

 

The inter-sex trait is something different.

That's a survival mechanism.

 

Forcing a female to produce pollen does not change the (dominance of) the genes itself.

The pollen are female sex cells, just in a different shape.

Does that answer your question?

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