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Organic soil, out of the bag, no nutrients added

organic soil

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#1 Gardener

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Posted 13 October 2016 - 08:54 PM

Hello everyone.

I'm a complete beginner when it comes to cannabis. I am still planning my first grow.

Lot's of people share their favorite soil recipes, with worm castings and guano and every other kind of bright idea. I am wondering about the potential for good organic soil, straight out of the bag, possibly cut with perlite/vermiculite to improve drainage, but nothing else.

Assume my room and my environment are all spot-on. Assume i have average to outstanding genetics.

If I can veg 6 plants in 3 gallon pots for six weeks and then flower for eight weeks under good quality 360 watt LEDs, but only soil and water is used, what kind of yield could i expect?

Anyone with experience growing in soil only, I would love to hear your stories. I am trying to decide whether to pursue such a grow. What kind of yield per plant could I expect?

Thanks.

#2 Snookster

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Posted 14 October 2016 - 06:14 AM

I tried a super soil once, adding only water. It didn't work out well for me. BUT....Your soil may do better. Best of luck!
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#3 BalzaSteel

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Posted 14 October 2016 - 06:35 AM

best answer is, it depends :)

Basically what you're talking about is "Super Soil", I could tell you all about it but you'll get more/better info if you google it, I don't think you can buy super soil in a bag.

I doubt that a plant would survive let alone do well in a 3 gallons pot and no fertilizer for 14 weeks, from what I've read growers using super soil use 5 gallon or larger.

soil and light aside, yield and quality are pretty much completely dependent on the growers skill, even the very best genetics can come out mediocre/light if grown badly enough.

yield also depends on genetics, I'm growing a Dr Grinspoon that's doing very well indeed, I'll be lucky to get an ounce off of it, I usually get at least 3 from a plant the same size.

Unless you have a fair amount of gardening experience I'd recommend soiless mix and a decent fertilizer, with organics you need to be able to spot problems very early in order to correct them before they damage your plants, with soiless mix and fertilizer you can address deficiencies fairly quickly and if you over fertilize you can simply flush out the excess fertilizer with water.

good luck :)

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#4 bigun

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Posted 14 October 2016 - 06:47 AM

hey Gardner...
I use straight soil from the bag for the grow period and only add pk 2 times during flower.
btw u can check my grow out and see for yourself. started using the inproved version last year.

I also use 3 gal nursery pots but am trying fabric pots for the first time.

I think I have fallen in love with them..so far they are out performing my nursery pots..lol

take care and b safe.

#5 Dr Don Bonez

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Posted 14 October 2016 - 07:15 AM

I think you may need at least a small amount of nutes just to keep em happy. You will probably run into deficiency issues as they grow larger and demand more nutrition. They would smoke really clean when harvested though :)
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#6 Misterdirt

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Posted 14 October 2016 - 09:15 AM

Depending on what's in your pre-mixed soil, the plants could need nutrients within 2 - 6 weeks.

I used to mix in different organic additives, like bone meal or pre-mixed dry organic fertilizers and dolomite when I mixed in the extra perlite. I'd veg for an average of 5 weeks from seed, and I needed to add nutrient supplements for the flowering stage. Sometimes I'd needs a little for the veg stage, but usually whatever I mixed in the soil was enough for veg.

Canna makes a very good concentrated liquid organic fertilizer mix for the flower stage, complete with molasses, that I can recommend.
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#7 Indican

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Posted 14 October 2016 - 03:20 PM

As they say, give em what they need.. Not what u want.
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#8 Barrie84

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Posted 14 October 2016 - 03:21 PM

All the experts told their expertise...i fully agree with them 5/6 weeks you dont have to use nutrients(if you add some extra) by the most pheno`s......watch them closely.... bacto`s, guano etc always a good advice :) you can use them all cycle long
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#9 gardenartus

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Posted 14 October 2016 - 04:40 PM

It really doesn't take much in the fert lines, you will see some buy 12 bottles of different types. You can keep it very simple, very cost efficient with soiless mix and a complete fert, don't go crazy on fert line ups, they are not needed. I have no experience with LEDs. I don't grow half as well in soil as I do in the Octopot which combines hydro with soil. As Balza says, depends on grower and genetics for yield. I can pull in soil 3 off Purple Para, put her in the Ocotopot and pull 6 to 8. I can put the same plant in and stress it and end up with one O.
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#10 John Dieselman

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Posted 14 October 2016 - 10:21 PM

I use Happy Frog right out of the bag cut with perlite. A little bit of humic acid concentrate for veg that's it. And then General Hydroponics Maxi bloom and some any kind of Cal Mag Plus. That's it.
Keep in mind genetics play a huge part, does every planet I've put into the soil things to do fantastic.
Save yourself a lot of headache keep it simple.

And definitely use the breathable smart pots for root pouches or whatever. Your plants will get huge even in a 3-gallon root pouch.

#11 bigun

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Posted 15 October 2016 - 07:43 AM

gardenartus, I went in the basement where this dude had his grow.
there was a shelf I noticed and I bet it had 20 different shit to feed his plants..

he also had some juice perking with a bubbler hose in it..
I never asked hat anything was as I was not even interested...WHY..lol

my opinion is this, Cannabas is a weed literaly so why treat it like it is a fragil thing that needs all this shit to grow it..lol

I keep it simple ..ferts make the weed taste bad..i know I use to feed them all through the grow.

everyone has their method of growing , I am a simpleton..

#12 BalzaSteel

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Posted 15 October 2016 - 09:46 AM

what I get a giggle out of is folks who bitch about the price of seeds and then go out and pay $200 for fertilizer and think it was a good deal :rolleyes2:

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#13 Misterdirt

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Posted 15 October 2016 - 03:33 PM

One more thing -- As a rule of thumb, I never give Cannabis, grown in soil, more than half the recommended rate on the bag or bottle. Most strains, especially ones with tropical sativa genetics in them, just don't want a lot of nutes. Sometimes have the recommended rate is too much.

The only strain I ever grew that would take a heavy dose of nutes without getting burned or fucked up in some way, was Anesthesia.
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#14 agreenpassion

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Posted 15 October 2016 - 04:34 PM

:(
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#15 bigun

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Posted 15 October 2016 - 04:40 PM

@ passion,
bro, rule of thumb is for every month of life expected is a gal. per month.
if u grow 4 weeks and flower 8 weeks= 3 gal. container

when I am looking for females to clone I will flip in a gal container and when they first show I transplant into 3 gal.
my moms that I flipped are in 5 gal.

@ Mr. Dirt..i use a ppm meter..i don't trust the container, bottlels or bags..lol
and, I don't use but 600ppm of pk twice during flower.

b safe everyone and keep it green.

#16 Gardener

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Posted 15 October 2016 - 05:58 PM

Great replies, everyone. Lot's of great advice, too.

What motivated my question, beyond ignorance, was something i read in another thread here on OpenGrow. Someone said you get roughly an ounce of weed per gallon of soil. It sounds like 'an-ounce-per-gallon' probably refers more to the volume of the plant's roots, than to the soil itself. But it made me wonder about the nutritional potential to grow an ounce of weed in a gallon of soil.

In spite of recommendations to go soil-less, I intend to begin by using a good organic blend. I have read of a lot of happy grows using Fox Farm. Roots Organics is another. BalzaSteel said he doesn't believe super soil can be purchased. I suspect he is correct. However, i came across another brand called Scientific Soils ( http://scientificsoils.com ). This is from their web page:

Scientific Soils Professional Growers’ Mix is the only product designed from the ground up in consultation with US and European soils experts to last the entire length of your growing cycle.

It made me curious about this claim, and how this soil would measure up to the others. The only problem is that they have limited regional distribution for their product. I tried contacting about ordering, and received no response. All of their vendors are out-of-state to me.

AGreenPassion suggested that a larger container with more soil might sustain a plant during its entire grow. I would love to find published information on commercial soil blends with hard data. Such as. How many gallons of this product is required to grow an ounce of weed, with no supplements? I think this would be some worthwhile information for the growing community. At least, those interested in growing specifically in soil.

#17 agreenpassion

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Posted 15 October 2016 - 06:50 PM

View Postbigun, on 15 October 2016 - 04:40 PM, said:

@ passion,
bro, rule of thumb is for every month of life expected is a gal. per month.
if u grow 4 weeks and flower 8 weeks= 3 gal. container

when I am looking for females to clone I will flip in a gal container and when they first show I transplant into 3 gal.
my moms that I flipped are in 5 gal.

@ Mr. Dirt..i use a ppm meter..i don't trust the container, bottlels or bags..lol
and, I don't use but 600ppm of pk twice during flower.

b safe everyone and keep it green.
Good rule of thumb for me and you my friend.
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#18 Hempyfan

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Posted 15 October 2016 - 09:38 PM

In soil, use a good store or make one.

Making one is same as store except you know what is in it but takes a bit of time and when correct is superior to a store soil.

A very least, some coco and worm casting will grow a plant. Add in some calmag in mid to late veg and early flower, mid flower for mag but adding some calcium is ok too. A small bit (hey look, he said small bit) flowering nutrients, ok if heavy feeder at a bit more flower nutrients but maybe 1/4 to at most 1/2 bottle recommendation around week 5 & 7 and you got a good first run.

Also, just putting a handful of flower guano at transition is good plus another handful at week 5 and forget the flowering stuff above.

Now for new growers. Keep it simple. It is fine to read and want this and that but screw that for the minute.

First learn about the plant, how it biologically works, how it grows, what it eats, when and why. This is a lot of information so do not complicate the first grow. You will go nuts if not already. This is not rocket science or it can be all depending on the direction you take.

Just learn the basics and take it from their applying each lesson and then trying new aspect as you go grow by grow. If you do this you will be impressed with your work. If you constantly change and chase this idea and this product you will always want without understanding correctly much of what you do. Most fit the chase category.
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#19 agreenpassion

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Posted 15 October 2016 - 11:51 PM

View PostHempyfan, on 15 October 2016 - 09:38 PM, said:

Now for new growers. Keep it simple. It is fine to read and want this and that but screw that for the minute.

First learn about the plant, how it biologically works, how it grows, what it eats, when and why. This is a lot of information so do not complicate the first grow. You will go nuts if not already. This is not rocket science or it can be all depending on the direction you take.

Just learn the basics and take it from their applying each lesson and then trying new aspect as you go grow by grow. If you do this you will be impressed with your work. If you constantly change and chase this idea and this product you will always want without understanding correctly much of what you do. Most fit the chase category.
Well worded, thanks Hempyfan :)
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#20 Indican

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Posted 17 October 2016 - 06:08 AM

Personally I doubt a single soil product can guarantee youre fine without nutes. Mj varies too widely IMO. A 14 week flowering plants nute needs are different than a 7 week flowering strain. So idk. I like the organic thread the dude has started.. He started from scratch n his plants look phenomenol. No idea which member. But I think its funny at beginning of thread all the old organic growers tellin him to take it slow.. Then a page or 2 in his plants are on point lol. Shows organic is pretty easy if youre a good student ;)
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