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Organic soil, out of the bag, no nutrients added

organic soil

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#21 gardenartus

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Posted 17 October 2016 - 09:16 AM

Ferts depends on genetics too, the Canna 4 is a nute hound, if I fed some of my others like I do her, would burn them. Experience teaches you a lot, some of these plants are so different then other genetics. I let the plants go naturally the first time I grow them out to see what they need as far as structure, feed them the same line as all, then adjust as needed for each plant.

Some folks I've seen spend more in ferts line ups then they ever produce in value of herb lol.
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#22 redz

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Posted 04 November 2016 - 07:29 AM

View PostHempyfan, on 15 October 2016 - 09:38 PM, said:

In soil, use a good store or make one.

Making one is same as store except you know what is in it but takes a bit of time and when correct is superior to a store soil.

A very least, some coco and worm casting will grow a plant. Add in some calmag in mid to late veg and early flower, mid flower for mag but adding some calcium is ok too. A small bit (hey look, he said small bit) flowering nutrients, ok if heavy feeder at a bit more flower nutrients but maybe 1/4 to at most 1/2 bottle recommendation around week 5 & 7 and you got a good first run.

Also, just putting a handful of flower guano at transition is good plus another handful at week 5 and forget the flowering stuff above.

Now for new growers. Keep it simple. It is fine to read and want this and that but screw that for the minute.

First learn about the plant, how it biologically works, how it grows, what it eats, when and why. This is a lot of information so do not complicate the first grow. You will go nuts if not already. This is not rocket science or it can be all depending on the direction you take.

Just learn the basics and take it from their applying each lesson and then trying new aspect as you go grow by grow. If you do this you will be impressed with your work. If you constantly change and chase this idea and this product you will always want without understanding correctly much of what you do. Most fit the chase category.

This is great advice right here!
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#23 benefit cuts

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Posted 04 November 2016 - 08:21 AM

A lot of good advice here. Substrates and especially organic living soil are topics that you can find out new things about for an entire lifetime and still have more to learn, in my opinion.

Addressing the question of whether there's a good enough organic substrate you can use straight out of the bag for a complete successful run though, I think there is. I did well with Plagron Batmix and no added nutes on 8 week flowering plants a few years back and would recommend it for that purpose. If starting your seeds in it, then it will be necessary to mix it with something inert like perlite or coco coir, then pot on into the full strength mix when the plants are ready.

I would mention though, that just because something is organic, it doesn't necessarily follow that it's made up of sustainable ingredients or that there has been no ecological harm caused by its production. So if your main reason for wanting to use full organics, from start to finish, is ethical then you would probably need to research any product further.

An easy alternative would be to buy in some organic light mix along with Sannie's organic kit and follow his 4 step method. It's proven to give good results and simple enough for beginners to follow without a problem.
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#24 Gardener

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Posted 04 November 2016 - 04:33 PM

View Postbenefit cuts, on 04 November 2016 - 08:21 AM, said:

Addressing the question of whether there's a good enough organic substrate you can use straight out of the bag for a complete successful run though, I think there is. I did well with Plagron Batmix and no added nutes on 8 week flowering plants a few years back and would recommend it for that purpose. If starting your seeds in it, then it will be necessary to mix it with something inert like perlite or coco coir, then pot on into the full strength mix when the plants are ready.

Duly noted. Plagron batmix.

#25 Mr Goodfellow

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Posted 03 January 2017 - 11:41 PM

Actually, you can buy something like Subcool's hand made supersoil online. Kind Soil has an interesting theory. They put the hot soil on the bottom third of the pot and a substrate above with the transplant. The idea is this creates a clean water space and the roots only go down to the hot section as the plant needs nutrition which never exposes roots to excess. He shows root ball through a grow. The roots slowly fill the bottom by the end of the grow but not before.

It's a water only mix. Check it out... not cheap but sounds interesting. http://www.kindsoil.com/

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#26 Billy Bunt

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Posted 02 February 2017 - 07:48 PM

Have you thought about using some of the Buffertablets/Biotabs/Healthy Start Tablets?

All you have to do is poke them into the top of the pot and you get 3-4 weeks worth of growth. Just plant it in a big pot, don't fill it all the way to the top with compost and then every 4 weeks add a few of the tabs as well as a few handfulls of compost/wormcasts, job done.

I would just but a good quality compost like Canna Bio Terra Plus and then keep adding nutrients once a month as I described. You can use your additives like seaweed, silicon, benifical bacteria/fungi and compost tea through veg. You could also try using Nettle Tea for veg and Comfrey Tea for flower too.

Buffertablets: http://www.sanniessh...fertablets.html
Biotabs: http://biotabs.nl/fe...tablets-54.html
Healthy Start Tablets: http://uk.solufeed.c...tablets-10-gram

#27 Dagris

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Posted 09 February 2017 - 04:51 PM

For what it's worth, here is my basic experience.
I started out using FFOF, as well as their nutes. Ordered seeds from overseas. Did a few indoor runs. Had decent results. But always was chasing some deficiency. Cal Mag? PH? Too much nutes, too much/little water?
In that first couple years, I upgraded lighting, fans, pots, and bought pens and sensors, all sorts of dumaflatchits. Yeilds stayed about the same.

Now I'm from farm stock have gardened most of my life. I had gotten away from it when I moved to my current location because my property is full of walnut trees and the first years garden was junk. A few years of working 60+hours a week kept me from starting again.
I wasn't happy with my results so I hunted down some old boys at the local bar and spread Old Style around. They reminded me that we feed the SOIL, and the soil feeds the plants.

This lead me to rediscover the "soil web" and brought me to Organics. My first grow with organics was this
2 bags cheap organic soil (FFOF was $22 I paid $10)
Perlite
Kelp Meal
Blood & Bone Meal
Alfalfa Meal
Garden lime
FRESH and bagged wormcastings

Water and mix. Let sit for about a month, watering once in a while and turning.

Plant, water, grow.
Only water, nothing else. Better Yields.
Now I'm a few grows in and always tweaking a little. But still only water in amended soil.
Still learning about teas and what other amendments may bring to the table. Will be setting up worm farm very soon.
A bag of amendments cost less than a bottle of nutes and will last years, not grows.

And do I think it tastes better? Yes. But of course I'm not very objective, lol.
In the process of setting up Blumats (why are we not on the metric system yet??) and expanding my personal setup.
I've not tried hydroponics or any of its variants. I see good results, just not my style.

I don't know if a bag of organic will go the whole run WITHOUT any amendments, but it WILL if it's LIGHTLY amended.
Sorry for the jabbering.
DA Gris

#28 Hamme Hydro

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Posted 09 February 2017 - 05:30 PM

Adding perlite makes the soil more forgiving to over watering. I had my best run on soil with 50% perlite added.

#29 bigun

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Posted 09 February 2017 - 05:54 PM

@Mr. Goodfellow..I use the hot down in the soil about 16" or so ..that is where the compose manure goes.lol

this is outside..lol

#30 Hempyfan

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Posted 09 February 2017 - 07:21 PM

View PostDagris, on 09 February 2017 - 04:51 PM, said:

For what it's worth, here is my basic experience.
I started out using FFOF, as well as their nutes. Ordered seeds from overseas. Did a few indoor runs. Had decent results. But always was chasing some deficiency. Cal Mag? PH? Too much nutes, too much/little water?
In that first couple years, I upgraded lighting, fans, pots, and bought pens and sensors, all sorts of dumaflatchits. Yeilds stayed about the same.

Now I'm from farm stock have gardened most of my life. I had gotten away from it when I moved to my current location because my property is full of walnut trees and the first years garden was junk. A few years of working 60+hours a week kept me from starting again.
I wasn't happy with my results so I hunted down some old boys at the local bar and spread Old Style around. They reminded me that we feed the SOIL, and the soil feeds the plants.

This lead me to rediscover the "soil web" and brought me to Organics. My first grow with organics was this
2 bags cheap organic soil (FFOF was $22 I paid $10)
Perlite
Kelp Meal
Blood & Bone Meal
Alfalfa Meal
Garden lime
FRESH and bagged wormcastings

Water and mix. Let sit for about a month, watering once in a while and turning.

Plant, water, grow.
Only water, nothing else. Better Yields.
Now I'm a few grows in and always tweaking a little. But still only water in amended soil.
Still learning about teas and what other amendments may bring to the table. Will be setting up worm farm very soon.
A bag of amendments cost less than a bottle of nutes and will last years, not grows.

And do I think it tastes better? Yes. But of course I'm not very objective, lol.
In the process of setting up Blumats (why are we not on the metric system yet??) and expanding my personal setup.
I've not tried hydroponics or any of its variants. I see good results, just not my style.

I don't know if a bag of organic will go the whole run WITHOUT any amendments, but it WILL if it's LIGHTLY amended.
Sorry for the jabbering.
DA Gris

Only thing I see missing magnesium. Add some epsom salts. Add in some worm castings & compost. Compost - carbon (try to get soil and sea compost but is not necessary for both but is ideal if you can) Carbon is very important in organics that may people do not appreciate. It is your decompose mechanism and what makes food and homes for many microbes. Also greatly assist in maintaining stability of your PH.

That soil recipe you have is tip of the top if you add the above!

I would also add some BTI (mosquite bits for dunks crumpled) in the top layers and/or nematodes for media protection from fungas gnats and anything else that might piss you off as bug in the soil. The nematodes take care of the anything else bit. Bti is for fungus gnats.

Some flower aspects I would consider.
Around week 5 or when the plant truly begins to flower (pack weight stop stretch) whenever that is for your plants give some phosphorous and some K. This will help with yield and frosty. You will create impressive plants with that soil mix on its own but do like I stated but tailored for your plants and will take to next level.

Or

You can put a handful of guana (P guano - fruit bat) on top of each container if you water from above. If you do that add about a week earlier.

Or

Just watch and adjust your soil recipe next time, this is largely more beneficial when growing clones where they are all the same.

My standard growing speech is this for new growers, if your new or do not the below. Learn it to an understanding and appreciation if able. (all answers are there)
  • Plant Physiology.
  • Environment & Lighting (actual light tech but also light wave lengths, what they do and how to manage etc).
  • Plant nutrition & development.
  • Plant management styles.
In that order pretty much. Learn that and you will know more than most and you will want for nothing other than a curiosity.
I say Jah Bless. I say this I ask for blessing in all that I do and blessing to all those who take time to read me. If it causes a person issue, understand my meaning and I wish you well under whatever view or belief. To be simply happy and Joy in your heart is all I hope and mean!

#31 Dagris

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Posted 09 February 2017 - 08:31 PM

Totally agree.
I do have the dunks. I have used the nematodes in the past. I also have Epsom salts. I haven't added any last few runs. I have plenty of ladybugs.
I'm looking at bio char for carbon?
I have 4 year old leaf/mulch pile that i have begun to use also.
Gris

#32 Hempyfan

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Posted 09 February 2017 - 08:40 PM

Bio char is good stuff but this is really beneficial long term and is more ideal if you reuse your soils or for outdoor areas. Think like shelters for microbes.

I am a big bio char fan but many have a misunderstanding about it. Think of it for soil structure, microbe shelter and will help keep PH stabilized. Quality biochar looks like black glass kinda. Be sure to soak it in a solution of low nitrogen and calmag or it will soak up from media and prevent plant availability.

Your leaf molds are A1 for compost. If you do a kitchen compost or a bokashi this is tip top as you know what its in it. While the leaf molds are A1, bring outdoors to indoors can cause pest aspects but you have this covered with nematodes and bti and your lady bugs. Just make sure no bad moldy or powdery mildew plants were composted in leaf molds as if not heated in compost enough those spores will live again.

If you had not needed epsom salts I would not fix what is not broke. The magnesium is coming from something else I do not see then. likely from the potting soils. If plants have shown no issue, disregard my advice on that aspect.
I say Jah Bless. I say this I ask for blessing in all that I do and blessing to all those who take time to read me. If it causes a person issue, understand my meaning and I wish you well under whatever view or belief. To be simply happy and Joy in your heart is all I hope and mean!

#33 jamin-303

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 06:37 AM

I would recommend using mycorrhizal inoculant when potting up and then brewing compost teas, the bio life should then break down and transfer food to your plants. Hopefully then you wouldn't be far off. Although I feel you may find that some kind of feed (not necessarily bottled) would be beneficial through the stretch to stop them Fading too early as well as a bottle of calmag on stand by can be a life saver. Good luck man!

#34 jamin-303

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 08:41 AM

Billybunts suggestion of buffertabs could work well for you too

#35 bigun

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 02:09 PM

Jolly Gardener Premium Soil will carry u thru a 12 week period really well..only add some pk at week 5 and 6 in flower and u will b good to harvest..NOTE: this is for a 8 week flowering Indica..


happy growing... :wave:

#36 steve

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 03:17 PM

View PostSnookster, on 14 October 2016 - 06:14 AM, said:

I tried a super soil once, adding only water. It didn't work out well for me. BUT....Your soil may do better. Best of luck!
was/is that the soil specifically for marijuana plants? See in advertised some tile ago - cost was out-of site - close to $50.00 a bag -But all you need is water (and a bunch of money)

#37 .: V :.

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 05:08 PM

top ten comercial soils.........lol ;)