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Coco organic? I need help!


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#1 Silas&Jamal

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Posted 15 November 2016 - 01:22 AM

Hey OG!

For some time i think about the possibility to grow organic without bottled nutes and without peat.
I would like to keep it simple.

My thought was to mix coconut fibre with 1/3 worm castings, add complete organics from guanokalong and use 11-18 liter pots.
For the first weeks i hope that would be enough and for flowering i thought about top dressing with guanokalong, palm tree ash and seaweed powder.
Do i need to add bacteria and mycorrhiza?

My problem is also the Ph, how to get it fixed at a good point? Dolomite lime? How much should i use? I have no clue.

I have plenty of coco and orderd 120 liters of worm castings and will wait what you organic pro's have to say i need too!

I want it to happen and i will try it for sure but i need some help please my friends.



#2 Hempyfan

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Posted 15 November 2016 - 02:49 AM

I would do the following. If you do this you will only need to give at most some flowering nutrients around week 3 to 5 depending on your plants.

Recipe I like:
  • 1-large bag (2 cu ft) organic potting
    • add compost of humus and ocean compost if soils do not contain.
  • 1-large bag (2 cu ft) light mix
  • 1 cu ft perlite (choose a brand)
  • 1 cu ft worm dirt (worm castings) or Cow Manure
  • 2 cup bone meal
  • 2 cup blood meal
  • 4 cups fruit bat guano
  • 1/2 cup Epsom salts
  • 1 cup dolomite lime,
  • can use agricultural lime but increase Epsom salts to 3/4 cup
  • 1/2 cup Epsom salts

  • Edited in, add kelp 3 cup Kelp meal or you can add via teas every other week.
  • +Pest management and brix additives.
    • BTI (gnat control)
    • Nematodes (optional pest control for most soil based bugs)
    • Rock dusts & azomite
    • Myco fungus and bacteria.
Let sit for about 2 weeks to a month or more but I have used in a week ok but longer is better.

Coco, fine and bird next types but either or is fine too. If only one I like fine better. Add more castings and compost if you do not want to use a pre soil in the mix. Add until mix will clump in your a hand. I cant really tell you amounts more so texture as moisture levels vary.

Worm castings. 1/3 but a bit more is not a problem either. You can sprout seeds straight out of castings. If you make your own castings this is how you know its good stuff, you will just see stuff sprouting from seeds that you put in via scraps.
  • Using "composted" cow manure is excellent and universal as worm castings. Can be used with worm castings or by themselves.
Adding guanos are good too, from veg to flower or both guanos depending on soil need.
  • 1/4 to 1/3 as well generically. If known for being hot use less or more as strength dictates.
  • I do not like chicken manure as it can be quite hot but many do use with good results. If you do, a little goes a long way and I would use on the light side.
Compost (mushroom and sea compost mixed is great stuff and has many reasons for its use). Compost is very import for conditioning it and maintaining stability over time.
  • Add some compost ontop of soil too. This will protect microbes in soil and enables water being filtered and dispersed at the top of compost through to the media which is similar to nature.
I like adding minerals and rock dusts but unless you are going to reuse the media I do not really recommend it. The same is true with bio char.

Drainage/aeration will help if you add perlite or any acceptable rock or even bio char for that aspect but perlite is good. Rice hulls are a consideration if you have issues with perlite use.

Adding myco and beneficial microbes are great. I recommend pre treating your media before transplanting to jump start the environment a week to a few days in advance. Myco/bacto if you put in a salt shaker and you can spread easy.

I like to jumpstart the soil with a light compost tea.

when bringing in composts and soils be prepared for pests. Fungas gnats specifically.

This is basically my take on N2ishun's recipe. I make it more complicated with the pest control and minerals.

If you do that. PH is a non issue. Generally soil with composts (carbon) and good biolife will ensure good ph in soil and in coco if you add the castings/manure and composts. People think its all biolife but the carbon is very important as well.

If you use inoculated biochar it will help as well but is not necessary for that purpose and I only recommend that if reusing soil as it is more long term condition and settlements/protection for microbes.

hope that helps. If just using coco, ensure coco pre-treated. Most is today but If it is not, ensure to prepare as instructed or the coco can potential problems initially.

Oh, most add kelp (3 cup Kelp meal for the recipe above, I add in as I forgot this) as well but I do not as I would add that via teas every other week.

Hope that helps. Also I would check on Jetdro's soil recipe. He was similar to above but now he is using a different nutrient instead of all the ingredients and it is looking to be impressive stuff. Bravo to Gardentus on that recommendation!
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#3 Silas&Jamal

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Posted 18 November 2016 - 02:43 PM

Hi Hempyfan thank you for the recipe,
thats a lot of stuff to put together,
i have guanokalong complete organics and want to use that,
it should be all in it what the plants need but its for use with soil and not coco.
I try it on my own and see if it works what i worked out.
I will mix the coco with 1/3 worm castings and add complete organics, bacto and myco,maybe some lime, water this with some sugar cane extract added and let it "cook" for 2-3 weeks...
i hope that works.
:)

#4 ifish

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Posted 18 November 2016 - 02:52 PM

I would love to see how it turns out too : )



#5 Damar

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 08:37 AM

Hempy takes the cake, great explanation! Bacto's and myco's a must, helps to make healthy 'living' soil.
Living Organic Soil thread / grow journal ...

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#6 Hempyfan

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 06:39 PM

View PostDamar, on 22 November 2016 - 08:37 AM, said:

Hempy takes the cake, great explanation! Bacto's and myco's a must, helps to make healthy 'living' soil.

Take it to next level and learn about natural farming and natural farming inputs.

Natural farming is also known as Korean farming. Do that and you take a step into hempyland.

what a dick I am. here is a link: https://www.youtube....h?v=nKbLb5xoIeU
I say Jah Bless. I say this I ask for blessing in all that I do and blessing to all those who take time to read me. If it causes a person issue, understand my meaning and I wish you well under whatever view or belief. To be simply happy and Joy in your heart is all I hope and mean!

#7 Damar

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Posted 23 November 2016 - 05:39 AM

OH man I'm all for it. Right now I'm almost finished power-reading through Teeming with Nutrients, the second e-book in line after Teeming with Microbes. Currently I'm pondering methods on how to make Si available as a plant nutrient naturally. Is it true that rye - a crop that does much better than other more nutrient-intensive crops in light, sandy soils - could be an effective way of taking very fine sand (100 mesh, about twice the particle size of whole wheat flour) and transforming it into available silica, if once grown it were tilled back into the soil?

I'm trying to avoid adding things like Dynagrow ProteKt or AgSil... it's supposed to be organic, right? I think with time (10, 20 years... perhaps) I'll be smart enough to figure out how to completely sustain a soil by rotating various crops and fertilizing with nothing more than vermicomposts (made of manures and veggie wastes) and watering with actively aerated compost teas to rejuvenate the microbial life.
Living Organic Soil thread / grow journal ...

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#8 webeblzr

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Posted 24 November 2016 - 08:32 AM

[Currently I'm pondering methods on how to make Si available as a plant nutrient naturally. ]

http://www.silica.or...eous-earth.html

Good to drink for humans....good for plants to!!
That is a dio sell sight, so seek out other info to back it up.

#9 Argo630

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Posted 24 November 2016 - 09:25 AM

Ok let me start out by asking what your goal is. total organic produce? Renewable resource? I am just trying to understand the game plan before i open my mouth.
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#10 MassGrown

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Posted 24 November 2016 - 10:27 AM

I saw kelp mentioned already. I am also a huge fan of alfalfa meal(or cubes for feeding animals soaked in water) and neem and karanja cakes mixed into my mix. Alfalfa for the nitrogen and neem and karanja for a little nitrogen but mostly for the anti-pest properties.

#11 Misterdirt

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Posted 24 November 2016 - 10:34 AM

Silas&Jamal:

There are two differences, as far as the plants are concerned, between coco fiber and peat moss. Peat moss retains more moisture when it gets wet, and it has a higher CEC (cation exchange capacity). For Cannabis, the lower moisture retention is an improvement over peat moss. If you believe you don't have enough CEC, you can add something with CEC -- composted organic matter or biochar would do the trick.

CEC holds nutrients with a positive charge, like potassium, calcium, iron and many micronutes.
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#12 Hempyfan

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Posted 24 November 2016 - 01:11 PM

Quote

<br />
OH man I&#39;m all for it. Right now I&#39;m almost finished power-reading through Teeming with Nutrients, the second e-book in line after Teeming with Microbes. Currently I&#39;m pondering methods on how to make Si available as a plant nutrient naturally. Is it true that rye - a crop that does much better than other more nutrient-intensive crops in light, sandy soils - could be an effective way of taking very fine sand (100 mesh, about twice the particle size of whole wheat flour) and transforming it into available silica, if once grown it were tilled back into the soil?<br />
<br />
I&#39;m trying to avoid adding things like Dynagrow ProteKt or AgSil... it&#39;s supposed to be organic, right? I think with time (10, 20 years... perhaps) I&#39;ll be smart enough to figure out how to completely sustain a soil by rotating various crops and fertilizing with nothing more than vermicomposts (made of manures and veggie wastes) and watering with actively aerated compost teas to rejuvenate the microbial life.<br />
<br />

I am aware of some plants for silica but cant recall it off hand at the moment. I believe mushrooms can play a role as well. Maybe in a ferment. I will see if I can find information. I have but buried somewhere and with gobble gobble I might not be back with it soon.

you can do that via natural farming and with natural farming inputs.&nbsp;&nbsp;I am a big fan of the inputs and I hope to start learning on the new pesticide aspects of it as they got new recipes out that is new to me. Exciting times.

Edited in:

Soil taken from around bamboo.
Horsetail, cleavers and nettles has silica in the plant. Extracting this like FPJ is the way to use it. (Fermented Plant Juice)
I say Jah Bless. I say this I ask for blessing in all that I do and blessing to all those who take time to read me. If it causes a person issue, understand my meaning and I wish you well under whatever view or belief. To be simply happy and Joy in your heart is all I hope and mean!

#13 Silas&Jamal

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Posted 13 December 2016 - 06:43 PM

Hey guys very nice information,
i said i will try it and here is what i did:

~150L Plagron Coco (new and used with some hydro clay balls mixed in)
60L Worm earth/castings
~30L Plagron Bat mix (had it left, so i put it in)
3L GK Organics, Complete Organic mix
1/2L Guanokalong, Guano Black
~5 Spoon´s or a cup? Dolomite lime
Bio Myco and Bio Bacto


don´t know if it works!?! :whistle:

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#14 Argo630

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Posted 14 December 2016 - 09:43 AM

Looking good we wait.
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#15 Silas&Jamal

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Posted 03 January 2017 - 06:48 AM

Hi OG!

They look good better then expected, i think i will let them flower without topdressing just water to test the cocosoil, maybe one or two will get some guano/palm ash in the 5th week to check what happens.




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#16 MiNdLesS

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Posted 03 January 2017 - 09:15 AM

Looks good in there! They seem to like ur mix.

Greetz
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#17 Silas&Jamal

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Posted 25 February 2017 - 06:08 PM

Hey OG :wave:

The my cocosoil seems to be very nice. Week 8 is finished the end is coming. :lol:
I did a little bit of topdressing with Guano Kalong products: complete organics, guano, palmtree-ash and vegetal fertilizer (and bacto every week one time with the water + sugarcane molasse every 2nd week).
But i just topdressed 1-2 teaspoons per 18liter soil, and just when i had the feeling they could benefit from a little bit of this or that. lol its a little bit of getting the feeling what they need. i like it. :D
I topdressed the cocosoil 2 times in flowering with 2 teaspoons dolomite lime for "ph adjustment"
and thats it + love and water and light and so on :likken:

The plants love it and flower like crazy! :icecream:

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take care my friends and a nice weekend @ all :wave:

#18 Hamme Hydro

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Posted 25 February 2017 - 06:52 PM

Nice buds, your mix obviously works!

#19 Dr Don Bonez

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Posted 25 February 2017 - 07:53 PM

The emdog looks beast. Hows the smell?
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#20 Silas&Jamal

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Posted 04 March 2017 - 11:46 AM

thank you guys!
yes the mix worked quality and yield should be fine!

@Drdonbonez: the #2 is more OGKush a sweet earthy funk smell and the #4 is more chemdog with a very skunky stinky stank fuel earth oil lionscage garlic...

sadly mindless dicoverd some bananas at the #4 in mid flowering and me then too. but its very potent weed!

greetz silas