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A Continuous Evolutionary Grow

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Schwazzing update.  The more i defoliate, the more encouraged i am by what's happening. The plant is Ice.  Day 4 of flowering.  Almost no fan leaves.  Buds are popping everywhere.

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I did that to a plant outside a long time ago. It wasn't any pre ordained method, I just defoliated the crap out of it in late summer. I thought I had killed it. I went out the next day and saw how much I trimmed it. I sort of freaked out and thought I'd lose the plant. Next thing I know it started budding like yours; buds everywhere. And, since there was no foliage, all the buds flourished. 

I never did it again to that extent. I just got lucky on the time I chose to do it. It was a hell of a haul. 

peace

mrG

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Thoughts on schwazzing.  

On the surface, it doesn't seem to make sense that stripping a plant of its leaves would help it produce bigger yields.  After all, the leaves are the energy factories for the plant.  I haven't seen bigger yields with this method yet, because my first experiment is still growing.  But i can see that it works. So, why would this make sense?

Ice grew for almost six weeks from seed.  She was FIM'ed above the fifth node sometime around week three.  She grew into a small bush.  A healthy plant, she has a fat main stem by this time.  14 branches.  And she is covered in leaves.  She also has a 3 gallon root ball.

Just before flowering the plant, (almost on a whim after reading about the method) I strip all of the fan leaves.  Is the plant defeated?  No.  Is it dead?  No.  It wants to grow.  But it has no leaves.  So it does what any self-respecting plant would do in that situation.  It starts growing new leaves.  And where does it grow these new leaves?  At all the budding sites that will soon turn into blossoms.  

The buds grow because that's the path to survival and reproduction that nature built into the plant.  It has to grow buds when the leaves are gone, because that is the only way forward for the plant.  So it grows buds because it has to.  And it can grow buds, because the branches are there.  The roots are there.  It is not a setback to lose its leaves.  The infrastructure is already there.  This is just an opportunity for new growth.  The buds are suddenly stimulated into growing when all that shade gets cut away.  Now it has light.  And also, the plant has no leaves.  The plant wants leaves. ( It is a self-respecting plant, after all.)  So the conditions for buds to grow are there.  The plant just needs leaves.

My only regret was to veg the plant for only two days after schwazzing before putting her on a 12/12 diet.

22 hours ago, Gardener said:

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More thoughts on schwazzing.  The tall plant in the middle is Master Kush.  MK Is four weeks old.  She was FIM'ed a week ago.  She already lost her first- and second-node leaves.  From the third node up she is still wearing the leaves.

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These are the buds growing from the fifth node.  These are not big enough yet.  Losing the leaves would be a set-back for the plant.  I want these buds to look more like...

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...these buds.  From the fourth node.  They already have their own stems.  The first leaves are unfurling.  These buds look more ready than the ones above.

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And these are the buds and leaves from the third node.  The leaves could come off.  The growth tips are becoming branches.  (And out from both sides, below the third node, are the tips of the branches from the second node.)

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Still more thoughts on chwazzing.  The bushy plant on the right is Wonder Woman.  Day 39 of veg.  She was actually schwazzed yesterday morning.  But i left some leaves because they were nursing along some tiny buds.  Today, those buds were bigger, so the plant lost more of its leaves.

1 hour ago, Gardener said:

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These are the upper branches.  Under a heavy leaf canopy, the plant would not produce big flowers here.  The buds would never be stimulated to grow.  With leaves, the plant's energy would be directed toward growing a bigger, taller plant.

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Take away the leaves.  The plant cannot grow taller.  The plant needs new leaves.  The buds are tiny.  In a week, these branches should be covered in young new leaves growing from each budding site.

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The bottom branches were covered in fairly well developed buds.  But the buds weren't getting any light.  Now, with the canopy largely gone, the buds inside, at the bottom of the plant, are stimulated to grow.

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I never did it fro the start like that, only after it had vegged outside for a good month to two months.  Then, when I did it it was close enough to flower time maybe, that it just went off like crazy on budding. I always had the thought that you have, that survival is inherent and that it's natural,  in that sort of stress event, that maybe the plant decides it's time to go for survival. It sure amazed me. Wish I had pics. Good memories outside, in the mountains of western North Carolina. 

peace

mrG

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When the plant is a giant mass of leaves, the only growth option is to grow taller tops.  Strip away the leaves and the only growth option is through the budding sites.  As long as the plant is healthy when you do it, and you don't take too many immature leaves, it should stimulate the budding sites.  Taking immature leaves sets the plant back.  Growing leaves are on growing stems.  Grown leaves are on grown stem.

Don't think of it as removing energy from the plant if the leaf itself is mature.  Think of it as redirecting where the plant is going to grow next.  Removing leaves creates the need for new leaves.  Cannabis always grows where new leaves are growing.  It never really grows without new leaves to power that growth.  

The buds are the only thing that ever grow on a cannabis plant.  When the plant is tiny, it grows taller and taller through the bud on top of the plant.  New leaves help new stem to grow.  Remove the leaves from grown stem, and  buds will grow laterally.  Every developing leaf helps develop a bud.  Remove the leaf after it has grown.  The bud is the only thing that can grow next. 

The first defoliation stimulates branches to grow from the main stem.  The second defoliation stimulates buds to grow on the branches.  Cannabis is an annual.  But if it could survive from year to year, then defoliation would be akin to an enforced autumn.  The loss of leaves in autumn precedes the new growth of spring.  Imagine a tree.

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First defoliation of Master Kush.  Here are before and after pictures of the plant.UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_1b4b.thumb.jpg.d3ebb817b6f52163267602805aab827f.jpgUNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_1b4d.thumb.jpg.c189045552dff4536093448c1c4fe67d.jpg

 

I took fan leaves off of the main stem.  The plant was FIM'ed above the fifth node.  I left the leaves on the fifth node, and on the FIM point.  Here are the buds at the fourth node before the leaves came off.

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Close-ups of understory branches.  The plant lost its leaves.  So this is now where it will grow new leaves.  The main stem isn't going to generate any new leaves, because it was FIM'ed.  The main stem cannot generate new leaves.  The main stem cannot continue to grow.  FIM'ing the plant forces the outward growth of these new growth buds.  Each one a branch in the making  Defoliating the plant gives these branches more light.  And it puts the survival of the plant into the branches.  Master Kush must now grow branches in order to survive.  There is no other way for the cannabis plant to continue to grow, but to grow from the buds that grew at the base of each leaf along the stem.  Cutting the leaves forces the buds to grow.  Cutting the leaves cuts the plant's energy.  The plant now needs another set of leaves.  The means to grow new leaves exists.  This is not a setback for the plant.  This is an opportunity to grew in a new direction.

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Hi Gardner 

how far in to flowering do you defoliate ? 

I normally do week 1 and week 3 of flowering but recently I read some people also defoliate on week 5 with great results 

I too just stripped them down as well it really helps bud development 

I think I will try week 5 as well 

peace

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Sometimes it is good to clear out a flowering tent and start with new plants.  I am all in on defoliation now.  Here is the current state of my grow.

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Ice, on the right in the photo above, is the only plant in flower right now.  Seven days of pistils.  Here is a better view.

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The plant just to the left of Ice is Wonder Woman.  Not in flower yet.  But i have been prepping her for flowering.  She was defoliated earlier this week.  I defoliated Ice two days before she started 12/12.  With Wonder Woman, I wanted to veg the plant longer after defoliation.  She will probably start flowering after Monday or Tuesday.

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27 minutes ago, Papalag said:

Hi Gardner 

how far in to flowering do you defoliate ? 

I normally do week 1 and week 3 of flowering but recently I read some people also defoliate on week 5 with great results 

I too just stripped them down as well it really helps bud development 

I think I will try week 5 as well 

peace

I recently started defoliating the plants before flowering. The idea is to stimulate all of the buds to begin growing before flowering is induced. Budding sites that are actively growing are going to outperform buds that have been slumbering under leaves.

I'm having a hell of a lot of fun with this. It's a little bit like cultivating bonsai plants.

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@Gardener, I'm wondering if the plants will want more food. With all the additional growth sites, seems like nutrient uptake would go up. Also, I'm going to defoliate one of my clones and see what she does. They are still really short and turning into a tight ball, maybe removing the leaves with force her to do something different. Hell, maybe they just need me to push them into doing something different. 

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5 hours ago, Justcozz said:

@Gardener, I'm wondering if the plants will want more food. With all the additional growth sites, seems like nutrient uptake would go up. Also, I'm going to defoliate one of my clones and see what she does. They are still really short and turning into a tight ball, maybe removing the leaves with force her to do something different. Hell, maybe they just need me to push them into doing something different. 

I don't believe the plants will want more food.  When i strip the leaves i create an imbalance in the plant between the roots and the leaves.  Before the leaves get stripped, i try to get the plant to grow as fast and as vigorously as possible.  I don't do it by force-feeding nutrients.  Just by making sure that all the conditions for fast growth are there.  Light, nutrition, temps, all of that.  Fast growth is powered by leaves and roots working together.  

The leaves and the roots of a plant support one another.  They tend to be in balance.  There are enough leaves to keep the roots happy.  And there are enough roots to keep the leaves happy.  If you strip away the leaves you won't need to feed more nutrients.  It has all the nutrients it needs already.  When you strip away the leaves, you will have a giant rootball supporting tiny new growth.  So you won't need more nutrients, because the roots are not in balance with the leaves.  The plant is suddenly growing slower because it lost its leaves.  The plant has all the nutrients it needs to grow new leaves because the feeding schedule was able to support the plant before stripping the leaves.  So why wouldn't it be able to support the new growth too?

Think about this.  if you have a big healthy root ball that supports a lot of big healthy leaves on fast growing branches, and you strip away the leaves -- That plant needs to grow a lot of bud to bring the leaves and roots back into balance.  Leaves grow from buds.  No need to feed more nutes.  Just keep feeding nutes.  That's all.

Strip the leaves and you may see transpiration slow.  The plant may not be drinking as much right afterward.  But as the new growth picks up, the plant should get back close to its previous consumption levels.  The plant will grow enough buds to make up for the loss of leaves.  All the conditions are already there.  Don't change the feeding schedule at all.

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A seedling with three first leaves!  (And deformed cotyledons.)  First time witnessing this up close.  Lemon OG Haze auto flower.  Let's see how she does.UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_1b87.thumb.jpg.8dfe83cf3debb0e4e9c2b3fde53ca5bb.jpgUNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_1b88.thumb.jpg.53ed5319d94c13ff3cf2dfbd9f9691a2.jpg

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Seeing babies always makes me want to pop some seeds. Good luck, can't wait to see how she turns out. :tu

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Me too! I'm finally getting my stash all in jars and then it'll be time to build a new room and start some new ones. I have so many that I wish I could start all at once, lol. I hope to start separating seeds once the jarring is finished. I need to get them organized and see how many I have. Lots of one but some of all the other strains of the last two grows. It amazes me that in all of the new crosses, that some new and crazy best taste could always be possible. Not as likely as the days of Jack Herer, though. But, cool to know a real gem could surprisingly happen. 

Best vibes on the new babies, Gardener! Looking forward to the bud explosion on your latest defoliated plants.

peace

mrG

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After a week of veg

On 12/7/2018 at 10:27 PM, Gardener said:

First defoliation of Master Kush.  Here are ... after pictures of the plant.UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_1b4d.thumb.jpg.c189045552dff4536093448c1c4fe67d.jpg

That was last Friday.  Today is Thursday.

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Does it miss its previous leaves?

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These two plants are children from an accidental pollination of a Strawberry Kush mother with a mystery sativa father.  Strawberry Kush was a short squat little specimen with tiny inter-nodal spacing.  The father was a tall sativa with big leaves and lots of open spaces among the leaves.  This was day 18 from when the plant first popped up out of its rapid rooter.  I won't know if these are female until i flower them. 

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In the photo above, the plants have four pairs of mature leaves and a fifth pair still filling out.  With the exception of auto flowers from my first grow, i have always been training plants in different ways.  I have never grown a plant upright with the main stem intact.

That's the plan for these.  To not top or FIM the plants.  To not bend the plants.  But to control the growth through defoliation.  The plants above are too young to defoliate.  When i top or FIM a plant, i normally do it above the fifth node.  I never know if the first node is going to be worthwhile.  By cutting a plant above the fifth node, i can get four or five pairs of branches this way.  I like to have eight branches in total, or four pairs.  I can never trust the branches at the first node.  I keep them if they look good.  I cut them if they don't.  So, I will begin defoliating the plant when the leaves from the fifth node are of a mature size.

In the photos below the plants were 22 days old.  This was their first defoliation.  I stripped all of the fan leaves from the main stem from the fifth node down, exposing the growth buds to direct light.  Stripping the leaves creates an imbalance between a healthy root system with a nice stem and not enough leaves.  The plant wants to grow new leaves.  The buds left behind after the leaves were cut away can now begin growing out.  These become the branches.

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The fourth and fifth nodes after the leaves were cut away.

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The third and fourth nodes

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The second and third nodes

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The first node.

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@shiskaberry savior You have some of these seeds.

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After that first defoliation the Strawberry Kush x Mystery plants stood about 9 inches tall.

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Two days later the plants lost their sixth node leaves.  That was day 24.

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Here are the plants today, day 28.  Today the plants lost the seventh-node leaves from the main stem.  Since i am defoliating the main stem, i still consider this to be a part of the first defoliation.  

There are two reasons for continuing to cut away leaves from the main stem.  The first is to encourage lateral branching.  The second is to slow the upward growth of the main stem.  I want to let the plant grow as tall as it wants.  But i work against that tendency by cutting all but the youngest leaves from the main stem.

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Tomorrow i will begin the second defoliation.  Stay tuned.

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Great job on the step by step bro. Keep it coming.:grinning_respect:

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They look extremely strong. Looks like a nice mix of the two strains. Those plants look like they are going to rock!

peace

mrG

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Yesterday I defoliated three plants.   Here are some photos of what I did.  Be forewarned.  Some of these images may disturb you.

The two Strawberry Kush x Mystery plants.  Day 28.  The main stems were defoliated on day 22.

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Master Kush.  Day 42.  Her main stem was defoliated sometime around day 26 to 28.  

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Strawberry Mystery

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Lifting a branch to show the second branch, below.  4 nodes already.

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Pulling down the branch i just lifted.  The second node is almost between my fingers.

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Master Kush.  This is the plant to test defoliation on.  First, Master Kush is a top notch indica.  I love the high.  

Master Kush is a tall plant.  I have grown her twice before.  She produces nice colas at the end of each branch.  But she has a tendency to put out the tiniest, most disappointing secondary buds along the branches.  They tend to begin growing late into flowering.  But that is with the leaves left on the branches.  This time, I am defoliating the plant prior to flowering in order to force the buds to begin growing now.  

Before.

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After

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Yes.  Even I was shocked when I stepped back and saw what i had done.

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Close-ups of Master Kush buds.  This is why they disappoint.  They are so tiny.

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The first node branch on Master Kush.  Notice that water droplets formed where i had recently snipped the leaves.

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The first node branch on one of the Strawberry Mystery plants.  These are all bud photos from Strawberry Kush Mystery.

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Too extreme?  If these were going to be flowered tomorrow i might agree.  But i will give these plants up to a week to recover in veg.  Maybe more for Master Kush.  

All of these plants are about as big as I want them to be.  This is now the pre-flowering-stage finishing school.

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