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Mr. Bins' modular high pressure aero scrog

modular scrog high pressure aeroponics aeroponics scrog cob led

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#1 Mr. Bins

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 02:36 AM

I've been building out a new grow setup this summer using high pressure aero / DWC hybrid under COB LED lighting. All flowering will be done using portable SCROG modules that can be disconnected in seconds and wheeled around like carts. Central res is auto topped up with RO water via float valve. Currently flowering around 15 different strains. Running the COBs at 50W each, 100W total per cart module. Currently 4 weeks into flowering and just discovered a massive infestation of Russet Mites - I was unaware of this new plague until a few days ago when I purchased a low power microscope. I'll be rotating late-flower-safe control methods to help this harvest to completion. For Veg I've completely defoliated all plants and will be hammering the remaining sticks with various systemics until they're completely wiped out before putting anything else into flower. Have also been battling Thrips and Powdery Mildew but those are both very easy to deal with compared to the Russet Mites. Using House and Garden Aqua Flakes and currently pushing 1100-1300ppm.

Edit: Thanks to Le rat for the help with getting photos to display.

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#2 Le rat

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 03:18 AM

Nice set up dude !!
Maybe the carpet is not the best for cleaning and keep mites away.

Hope you the best !
Le rat

#3 Hempyfan

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 05:36 AM

Love those portable bins. You did good! I prefer flood and drain best but that is merely my preference.

I would call in the horde to help address those russett mites. For the PM and a wee bit of help with the others run a sulfur burner, no good in mid to late flower though as it will make your buds stink but if you run in veg and run in flower room before you put the plants in and before the buds really form you will well.
  • In essence run a good sulfur burner management regime and PM is a thing of the past.
That is just a helpful measure outside of getting your environment. The hydro as you have it can make it difficult to prevent little micro climate aspects in terms of controlling humidity and drying periods with good timing when the lights go dark. You need a balance and this can be a true bitch to determine and is why I recommend the sulfur burner management system while you work out the environment.

When working your environment it is just not about the plants but yea the plants are the main factor.

If getting beneficial bugs to help (the horde!) ensure they will do well in your environment. Some types are better at varied humidity and temps.

In addition, check your moms!

I am not a fan of using chems and such but do what you gotta do but keep in mind with heavy defoliation in veg, might be better to restart veg.with plants not being limited due to heavy defoliation. If it was just for a person growing medically/personal use but you look more commercial and legal based so I am thinking in those terms.

Additionally, if legal and growing for a dispensary and may depend on the state, they will test for chems and pesticides.
I say Jah Bless. I say this I ask for blessing in all that I do and blessing to all those who take time to read me. If it causes a person issue, understand my meaning and I wish you well under whatever view or belief. To be simply happy and Joy in your heart is all I hope and mean!

#4 dieseldog381

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 06:40 AM

Nice setup!

Mighty Wash is magic for mites, if you haven't tried it, usually one or two hits of it, and they are gone forever. I use heat for Powdery Mildew, but looks like a pretty big space you have there, may be difficult. PM dies off about 96F or so, I believe, can't quite recall, but there are some excellent pieces by College Ag departments out there on using heat to kill PM, don't know why you don't see more of it on cannabis boards. I'm a closet grower, so with my HPS, I just turn off all fans, and run the temp up to 110 for an hour or so, hard to get it there with my LED, but it totally wipes out PM. I would usually run my plants at about 100 or so for a few hours, then remove them, and run the room up as hot as I could get it, usually about 120. Problem solved.

The other product that's excellent, and virtually eliminates PM organically is Serenade. I've been around the world with PM, AND, mites, so I usually do EVERYTHING, when I get them. I believe you CAN eliminate both, you don't have to live with them.

At first sign of mites, I spray with Mighty Wash, and I like to add a teaspoon per gal of Ed Rosenthal's pest control oil, smells good, too, and the combo seems to kill them in one swoop, but I usually apply a second time in 3-4 days. If I spot PM, I immediately hit it with Serenade, then I'll heat them up the following day, works great, and all these are about as organic as you can get. Oh, Serenade smells like sewer gas, but goes away quick. Good luck to you, way cool setup.

https://www.1000bulb...1EaApsiEALw_wcB

http://npk-industrie...ighty_wash.html

#5 Mr. Bins

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 01:03 PM

View PostLe rat, on 13 September 2017 - 03:18 AM, said:

Nice set up dude !!
Maybe the carpet is not the best for cleaning and keep mites away.

Hope you the best !
Le rat

Thank you, and thanks again for the help with pics. The carpet is non-ideal for sure and I've gone through plenty of towels in the process of getting this set up and working out all the bugs and leaks. I'm considering a full pond liner floor covering as a future upgrade. One benefit of this modular setup is that it's very quick and easy to break down the whole system and cart everybody out into another room, for example while I vacuum the floor or put in the pond liner.

On the Russet Mites front I had a surprising win. On a whim I tried spraying with Cypermethrin (Demon Max) and it appeared to completely obliterate the Russet Mites. I have not confirmed this in an isolated test yet though, there were other things I was spraying as well like neem but the timing really seems to suggest that the Cyper is what did them in.

#6 Hempyfan

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 01:08 PM

account for the life cycle or you will see them again.

I hope to hear they are gone!
I say Jah Bless. I say this I ask for blessing in all that I do and blessing to all those who take time to read me. If it causes a person issue, understand my meaning and I wish you well under whatever view or belief. To be simply happy and Joy in your heart is all I hope and mean!

#7 Mr. Bins

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 02:11 PM

GT thanks for the great comments and advice. The carts and low power microscope have turned out to be indispensable components of my developing IPM. In past grows I've always run up against the problem of plant accessibility so this time around I finally bit the bullet, designed and built a system that would solve the accessibility issue. Being able to take the cart out and have easy access to all parts of the plants makes an enormous difference. Using these carts I never have to reach more than 9" from one side of the canopy to access any part within. Yesterday I added a hoist to the center of the room that allows me to lift a cart to eye level and walk all the way around it. Between the carts, hoist, and the use of detachable shock cords for my scrog net I feel I've made some significant advancements in terms of making scrogging easier and more efficient.

#8 Mr. Bins

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 02:36 PM

View PostHempyfan, on 13 September 2017 - 05:36 AM, said:

In essence run a good sulfur burner management regime and PM is a thing of the past.

I may get sulfur involved at some point if needed but it has some caveats and I'm not sure how well it'd integrate with my continuous flower environment. The portable carts would make it possible though to take the plants out of the room to treat the room itself. Also could set up a sulfur tent that could hold a few carts and a sulfur burner.


View PostHempyfan, on 13 September 2017 - 05:36 AM, said:

That is just a helpful measure outside of getting your environment. The hydro as you have it can make it difficult to prevent little micro climate aspects in terms of controlling humidity and drying periods with good timing when the lights go dark. You need a balance and this can be a true bitch to determine and is why I recommend the sulfur burner management system while you work out the environment.

When working your environment it is just not about the plants but yea the plants are the main factor.

I agree that, for the most part, PM is a sign of environmental issues. I now have a dehu set up as well as temp/RH monitoring and this has been very helpful and educational. For future rounds I expect the PM to be a diminishing issue. Currently I'm treating it only with Potassium Bicarbonate and dish soap but I have been looking at some of the organic systemics.


View PostHempyfan, on 13 September 2017 - 05:36 AM, said:

I am not a fan of using chems and such but do what you gotta do but keep in mind with heavy defoliation in veg, might be better to restart veg.with plants not being limited due to heavy defoliation. If it was just for a person growing medically/personal use but you look more commercial and legal based so I am thinking in those terms.

Additionally, if legal and growing for a dispensary and may depend on the state, they will test for chems and pesticides.

It's really hard to find good info about the issue of pesticides on the forums. The consensus seems to be that more toxic stuff is probably ok in veg but I think what's really needed is some experimentation with the use of pesticides and then testing the cured product. I've read accounts of people using things like Avid just before or even during flower and having it not show up at all on the test.

In general though my system is basically designed around pest control from the ground up, so that hopefully the use of pesticides can be minimized altogether. If pests weren't an issue we could just cram a room full of plants and lights and come back in 2 months, but the reality is far from that. My past grows have taught me that the most influential factor in grow success is human attention to the surfaces of the plants.

#9 Mr. Bins

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 02:52 PM

Here's my temp/RH monitor graph. The green line is a secondary temp probe that I've put in the path of the dehu output so it helps visualize when the dehu is running, which is almost 24/7 right now. The humidity goes up at night because I shut the door to the room when the lights are out. Hoping to figure out a light-proof door that also can act as a passive vent back into the rest of the house.

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My Danby 70pt dehu. Adapted to 1/4" tubing and fed down to a 5gal bucket that I've been manually emptying for now. Planning to add a pump to send it to waste.
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#10 Mr. Bins

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 03:10 PM

Oh yeah, this didn't work out:

View PostHempyfan, on 13 September 2017 - 05:36 AM, said:

keep in mind with heavy defoliation in veg, might be better to restart veg.with plants not being limited due to heavy defoliation.

Every single plant that I defoliated died, and they were very healthy. So lesson learned, even extremely healthy plants don't seem to recover from a complete defoliation. This surprised me. Fortunately I was able to replace the genetics without much trouble.

#11 Mr. Bins

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 03:26 PM

View Postdieseldog381, on 13 September 2017 - 06:40 AM, said:

Mighty Wash is magic for mites,

I've seen this stuff mentioned all over the boards but I am leery of spending my money on it. The claims of it being some form of modified water sound like complete BS, and it turned out that this stuff contained Pyrethrins and wasn't listing it on the label so my trust level is pretty low, particularly given the price. I did buy some Pyrethrin concentrate and sprayed it, it didn't seem to affect the thrips or the Russet Mites at all.

View Postdieseldog381, on 13 September 2017 - 06:40 AM, said:

run the temp up to 110 for an hour or so, hard to get it there with my LED, but it totally wipes out PM

This is an interesting idea but seems extremely stressful and l possibly fatal to a plant - definitely not something I'd subject a flowering plant to even if it were feasible.

View Postdieseldog381, on 13 September 2017 - 06:40 AM, said:

The other product that's excellent, and virtually eliminates PM organically is Serenade.
...
Oh, Serenade smells like sewer gas

Thanks, this is one that I hadn't heard about. I've been looking at the organic systemic PM products, some of them are apparently Citric Acid based but it sounds like they may (or may not) be more than just Citric Acid dissolved in water. I'll try the non sewer gas smelling stuff first.

#12 Papalag

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 04:49 PM

Mr bins
Awesome set up and clean too
I pull up a chair if you don't mind

#13 Gardener

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 05:09 PM

That is a hell of a set-up, Mr. Bins. How long it it take you to evolve this system? And how fast can you veg a screen full of green? Typically.

#14 Mr. Bins

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 05:31 PM

View PostGardener, on 13 September 2017 - 05:09 PM, said:

That is a hell of a set-up, Mr. Bins. How long it it take you to evolve this system? And how fast can you veg a screen full of green? Typically.

I've been a hobbyist on and off for quite a while so I've spent a lot of time getting here. I started designing this system about 4 months ago, currently building out the 2nd room. (pics to come.)

Because of the detachable shock cord screen I was able to force large plants under the net and weave them in ways that wouldn't have been possible with any other kind of scrog net. I haven't yet had the luxury of vegging a plant into one of these carts but I'm planning a continuous cycle where they'll have 2 weeks to veg in the cart (starting with net-height or slightly taller plants) before the switch. The target will be the typical scrog target of around 75% full screen at flip, give or take depending on stretchiness of the strain.

#15 Mr. Bins

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 05:37 PM

Some pics of the hoist that I added yesterday. I've lifted the nearby COB lights to vertical for use as work lights.

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^^ scrog flavor country. anyone who has scrogged will understand.


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^^^ See look she needed some attention on that undercarriage ^^^

#16 DreamOfGreen

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 06:21 PM

yow-za that is a sweet ops. shame about the bug and mold issues but sounds like you've got things worked out.
i would suggest wrapping reflectix around them all when they're pushed together and you'll save and use a bunch of the lumes currently being wasted out the sides. https://www.lowes.co...00-ft-L/3775471 and just use spring clamps to attach to carts.
i was recently diagnosed as schizophrenic, i don't know how i feel about that.

and nether do i.

#17 Mr. Bins

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 06:49 PM

View PostDreamOfGreen, on 13 September 2017 - 06:21 PM, said:

i would suggest wrapping reflectix around them all when they're pushed together and you'll save and use a bunch of the lumes currently being wasted out the sides.

Thanks for the suggestion. I've been finding that the wall edges have been more hospitable to PM so I would think that wrapping something around the sides would make it even more difficult to manage humidity. The COBs are very efficient and environmental controls have been much more of a challenge than lighting has. Without the Dehu and AC running all the time I'd be hitting 90%+ RH at night.

#18 Le rat

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 09:33 PM

WOWWW and with the picture in full frame, it is more impressive. Nice work dude !!!!
For me all is perfect ! Excepte the cat calendar ; )
I really like the system that you'r built !
movable, as you tell it, you can remove one... very beautiful work !!!
Can you change the size between the hydro bac and canopy ?

PS I sometime also have 90% humidity at night...Then I check the website of
geneva weather and i saw that is in the air...
The only way for me to keep it dry it's to don't activate the humidity sensor... (work only in my case)
because de humidity outside is bigger than inside my house. I just let the fan run for moving the air
around but it's at 45% max now. I think the only way to have a dry air it's an Air Conditioned as yo say.
I just buy one big for next summer !

Big up Dude !

#19 Mr. Bins

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 11:03 PM

View PostLe rat, on 13 September 2017 - 09:33 PM, said:

WOWWW and with the picture in full frame, it is more impressive. Nice work dude !!!!
For me all is perfect ! Excepte the cat calendar ; )

Thank you. Please pardon the kitty porn but my tabby thinks Miss April is a cutie.

View PostLe rat, on 13 September 2017 - 09:33 PM, said:

Can you change the size between the hydro bac and canopy ?

Not sure what you're asking, can you clarify?

View PostLe rat, on 13 September 2017 - 09:33 PM, said:

PS I sometime also have 90% humidity at night...Then I check the website of
geneva weather and i saw that is in the air...
The only way for me to keep it dry it's to don't activate the humidity sensor... (work only in my case)
because de humidity outside is bigger than inside my house. I just let the fan run for moving the air
around but it's at 45% max now. I think the only way to have a dry air it's an Air Conditioned as yo say.

It's been very interesting, this is the first time that I've actually tried to control the humidity and track temps rather than just making a best effort with some ventilation. Here we just went from hot and dry outside to warm and very humid (80%+). The winter time will likely have its own set of challenges and I'll need to set up some non-AC ventilation. The temp and humidity tracker has been worth every penny considering it was around $23. The one I got, which produced the graph above, is the "La Crosse Alerts Mobile 926-25101-GP Wireless Monitor System Set with Dry Probe". What really surprised me was the amount of fluctuation visible in the graph. Looking at a non-graphing min/max monitor it's easy to forget how much of the picture you're not seeing.

#20 Le rat

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 12:38 AM

View PostMr. Bins, on 13 September 2017 - 11:03 PM, said:

Thank you. Please pardon the kitty porn but my tabby thinks Miss April is a cutie.

I saw it was always April..I thought it was because you don't care about..or because this ball of fur is your kind of pussy ; )
anyway...no focus on pussy here : )

View PostMr. Bins, on 13 September 2017 - 11:03 PM, said:

Not sure what you're asking, can you clarify?

Yes sorry, my english is pretty bad... I talk with 25 words ...
The gap between the pot and the net. Can be changed ?


View PostMr. Bins, on 13 September 2017 - 11:03 PM, said:

It's been very interesting, this is the first time that I've actually tried to control the humidity and track temps rather than just making a best effort with some ventilation. Here we just went from hot and dry outside to warm and very humid (80%+). The winter time will likely have its own set of challenges and I'll need to set up some non-AC ventilation. The temp and humidity tracker has been worth every penny considering it was around $23. The one I got, which produced the graph above, is the "La Crosse Alerts Mobile 926-25101-GP Wireless Monitor System Set with Dry Probe". What really surprised me was the amount of fluctuation visible in the graph. Looking at a non-graphing min/max monitor it's easy to forget how much of the picture you're not seeing.

I'm at the step before your...I think to do it : )
But what I see it's very clean ! I use an iPhxxe App. to do all ! Then that give me graphe about temp. Ph, EC (in / out) etc. very use full, with calendar note day by day (I always miss when my girls start to show fur). Vol. of water and nut added by ml or spoon...You can have a look it's GroLog by GroDan.

I will follow your adventures Mr. Bins !