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StankyDank30

breeding question

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Hi Sannie,

 

My question is: should a breeder avoid crossing a mom and dad that both have the same strain in the mix? For example: would crossing 2 parents that both have blueberry in there make up be a good or bad breeding practice? but with the blueberrys being 2 different source ie (cheese/blueberry X haze/blueberry)- just an example

 

-Stanky

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Not at all, Skunk #1 is still in about everything out there, Cannabis doesn’t mind marrying first cousins, lol. Moscas c99 that I’m working with was two distinctly different C99 strains crossed, then back crossed to give rise to consistent pheno types. In general,if both parents are killer, the kids will be as well. I ran C99 for a few runs from F1s I made from the original 10 pack, until I found the pineapple one I was looking for that I’m now cloning forward. The more different the strains, the higher liklihood of “outliers”.

 

I would suggest crossing on the basis of what you want to end up with. In your example, f1s may lean more towards the blueberry side, but you’ll get phenos leaning towards each parent, cheese, or haze

 

Crossing stuff is fun, I love my F1s and you’ll have pot that no one else has, too! My Mr Nice Black Widow x Bohdis Apollo 11 Is a favorite. Best of luck to you.

 

 

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Hi Sannie,

 

My question is: should a breeder avoid crossing a mom and dad that both have the same strain in the mix? For example: would crossing 2 parents that both have blueberry in there make up be a good or bad breeding practice? but with the blueberrys being 2 different source ie (cheese/blueberry X haze/blueberry)- just an example

 

-Stanky

 

Go check out seedfinder, it shows the family trees of strains. Many rocket fire strains seem to end up being crossed back into something it already had and working out for the better

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Seed finder, exactly, couldn’t recall the name of that genetics tracker. Leafly has some of these genetic trees now too.

 

For 99 bucks you can just send your seed spit to Ancestry.com for a DNA test. My Skunk #1 came back 13% Cherokee.

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It depends more on the dominant and recessive traits and how they blend to what you are working for.

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I agree with Hempyfan. I had a Killaqueen/Blue Hammer that I crossed to Ducksfoot hoping for some plants with the leaf trait. I grew out nearly 100 without success. I tried backcrossing it to the original Ducksfoot male over a further three generations and never got a single plant to inherit any kind of leaf variant.

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I agree with Hempyfan. I had a Killaqueen/Blue Hammer that I crossed to Ducksfoot hoping for some plants with the leaf trait. I grew out nearly 100 without success. I tried backcrossing it to the original Ducksfoot male over a further three generations and never got a single plant to inherit any kind of leaf variant.

 

I can not remember where I read about Ducksfoot in crosses, but if I remember correctly with a Ducksfoot that you need to line breed for the trait. Usually doesn't show up in an F1 and more likely in an F2 or F3. If I were to try back crossing for leaf structure I would see if I can get the trait to emerge in a Filial breeding and follow other Ducksfoot traits. Then use those expressing the traits I'm looking for back cross work.

 

This may have no validity, but I remember reading this somewhere from someone who has worked Ducksfoot.

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If you take a look at what is happening put west in the US you see a lot of hybrids that happen to be partial back crosses. Having a common grandparent in two cultivars will result in half of the genome being from that shared grandparent and seems to bring some stability to polyhybs. Also a way to being forth more potential recessive traits for further selection.

 

Look at Oni Seeds Tropicanna CPT for instance. (GSC x Tangie) X (Cherry Pie x Tangie). Not only is there Tangie as a grandparent but great grandpa or grandma is a Durban in GSC and Cherry Pie.

 

Or here is a different degree of separation but shared lineage on both sides. El Mexicano Genetix Plat Animal which is Animal Cookies x (Cherry Pie x Platinum Cookies).

 

You find a lot of Durban or OG being thrown back into Cookies hybrids. Or Cookies on both sides.

 

I only use cookies hybs on the west coast as example because of all the reintroduction of OG, Durb and cousin hybrids being worked back into one another.

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It should work fine in F1's, but I'm a little skeptical for F2 & 3's, lot of work, it could fall apart (as any breeding could) and chances of finding something better than just working the parents would be slim, In short if your going to go past F1's I would work each parent first to find the keeper males females then do your cross, personally I would probably do this even if I wasn't going past the F1's, this gives you the best idea of what your dealing with and making sure your working with the best of what you have in hand and even then it could still fall apart based on the criteria Hempy posted. Now this is just my humble limited breeding knowledge opinion, there's a lot of people on OG with tons more experience in breeding (growing I'm there with them), so all your answers are here. You want to really have some fun, find something special and create your own strain, take your favorite smoke or something you really like and grab some of the USC land races or their land race hybrids, find you a couple of males out of it to hit your keeper with and you'll have some Stanky Dank Haze (kush)! Once again this is just MHO and the direction I'm heading, if I'm going to do all that work I want to make something special and not beat the same thing to death again. One example is Saxo's Tula Berry, Choc. Rain X Turkish Land Race, the pictures speak for themselves and I think there's something really special yet to be found in that cross. Now with all that blabber bottom line, just do it, never know what might pop, lots of legendary strains were by accident!

Baq

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I agree with Hempyfan. I had a Killaqueen/Blue Hammer that I crossed to Ducksfoot hoping for some plants with the leaf trait. I grew out nearly 100 without success. I tried backcrossing it to the original Ducksfoot male over a further three generations and never got a single plant to inherit any kind of leaf variant.

 

are you saying you used a ducksfoot female and hit it originally with your KQ/BH cross male. if not and you wanted that leaf pattern and used your cross as the female that was not a good things based on your goals. in most cases any dominant strain trait that is consistent will come from the female and if you want that trait to express itself you have to start with that female. imho injecting males from that strain will also help as you work it further imho.

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Hi Sannie,

 

My question is: should a breeder avoid crossing a mom and dad that both have the same strain in the mix? For example: would crossing 2 parents that both have blueberry in there make up be a good or bad breeding practice? but with the blueberrys being 2 different source ie (cheese/blueberry X haze/blueberry)- just an example

 

-Stanky

 

easy answer is no in most cases and is done all the time. you only avoid combinations/strains in a breeding if you don't like those genetics. you wouldn't breed dogs that didn't have the performance/look you needed to do a job would you ?

yet, you would breed the dogs that showed they had the right stuff and came fro a lineage of dogs that also had the right stuff you liked. K.I.S.S. APPLIES to breeding too. you start with something basic and simple. earn from it and continue to more complex breeding projects that take more effort/time as you go toward a stable line. of course now days many many so called breeders aren't doing that. it's not by accident either it's contrived. that way a breeder can make more loot much faster; while at the same time avoid being ripped off easier. making the IBL is not only time consuming but then someone just takes the shit and you know the rest

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@SPW: The original male was Ducksfoot and the KQBH was the female. I kept a lot of pollen from the Ducksfoot. None of the offspring in any generation stood out, no duck leaves, all were pole plants and had a long flowering period. I kept hitting the earliest female from every generation and never found anything I was looking for. I photo-documented all of it and grew out the final two seeds last year. I also crossed one them to a USC Turkish Indica and now there's at least half a dozen for the garden this year. I happened to notice Dutch Passion have an Auto Duck and a fast flowering Frisian Duck already so at least somebody figured it out and I don't have to.

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On 4/3/2018 at 11:37 PM, Gimme5minutes said:

@SPW: The original male was Ducksfoot and the KQBH was the female. I kept a lot of pollen from the Ducksfoot. None of the offspring in any generation stood out, no duck leaves, all were pole plants and had a long flowering period. I kept hitting the earliest female from every generation and never found anything I was looking for. I photo-documented all of it and grew out the final two seeds last year. I also crossed one them to a USC Turkish Indica and now there's at least half a dozen for the garden this year. I happened to notice Dutch Passion have an Auto Duck and a fast flowering Frisian Duck already so at least somebody figured it out and I don't have to.

older post so maybe you found it out already, but I have the answer for you how to get duckfoot leaves.

been breeding with it myself for a while now, and it's a very easy trait to select and stabilise.

it inherits as a simple single recessive gene.

so crossing a plant with duckfoot leaves with a plant with normal leaves will never give duckfoot leaves in the f1, but all f1-plants will be carriers.

inbreed f1 plants with eachother, and 25% of the f2 will have webbed leaves(visible from the 2nd-3rd set of true leaves, so you can kill any non-webbed very early, saving space). since it's a recessive, once you have done that selection, and you cross webbed plants with eachother, all offspring will be webbed. 

 

I find it's also a handy tool to check pollen contamination. since I only grow outdoor, sometimes I get some contamination with pollen from other people. however, I'll notice immediatly since I will get non-webbed plants out of the seeds I made, and I can just kill the non-webbed plants and the leftover webbed plants will be from my chosen, webbed parent. 

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Your information is the same I was working with, its all that shit from high school. I've never had it work out despite the science that says otherwise. If you've been breeding Ducksfoot hybrids for a while please post some picks to show us your results.

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strange that it didn't work, you're sure you didn't use the wrong pollen/had some contamination somewhere?

I've never had it fail, I only had 1-2 odd plants in one generation that seemed to be duckfoot at first, but still got normal fingered leaf at the 3th or 4th node. but those were some rare exceptions. and I had a few plants were the f1 already showed some slight webbing(just a few leaves where 2 fingers were fused or so, no full webbing).

but imo it's a very easy trait to select because you can use those basic rules from highschool. trough my study I've learned some more complex inheritances(other forms of single genes like co-dominant, but also quantitive traits that you have to use larger numbers and statistics to properly select for), but the webbed leaf just follows the simple mendellian laws, so you can easily select for it with only small numbers. 

and some pics of plants I have this year

the first 2 are 25% duckfoot in ancestry, 3rd 37,5%, and the 4th 25% again. (first 2 are sisters, last 2 are other crosses that both contain kumaoni)

 

IMG_2421.JPG

IMG_2420.JPG

IMG_2419.JPG

IMG_2389.JPG

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