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Scone_Of_Ark

Be Careful What You Wish For

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It Actually Freakin Happened.

Years of growing organic and breeding mostly Sannie Gear (Thank You Sooo Much for that) I finally got the opportunity to stuff a jar of Sconey's finest under someone's nose.  

I was planning on joining up with an existing farm by offering whatever plants I had running at the time as a bribe in return for a lead gardener position or something like that.  

(Rule Of Acquisition #46; Never underestimate the power of a bribe) 

A modest plan with little preparation and a nice long learning curve just the way I like it.

But,

Anyone who knows me knows I can't just do Anything normal.  

So was it a farmer or better still a farm owner I was fortunate enough to network my way into the good graces of?  

Oh my no, it's an investor. 

 

The offer is now on the table from someone I know very well and currently work with in another business to open a tier one facility here in the area.  

I had No Idea this guy smoked pot, and he just started this year.

 

Yea I gave a noob the stuff I grow..,

 

Okay, Imagine you work for say this guy;

 

ktokatitmir0.0.jpg

 

I found out today he just started smoking pot, and he likes it.  

And he found out today I grow pot and I am really good at it.

He has a few old friends from collage days who also smoke it, and all have a finger or two in the cannabis pie themselves.

I just gave him a jar of this stuff;

 

gallery_833_383_72936.jpg

"Holy Crap! It Smells Like Candy"  

 

To cut a long story short, I just gave Tony Stark a chance to really show off, and I get to run with it.

Which brings me to the careful what you wish for part.

 

I was given Homework!

 

I have to price out a 2000 square foot facility.     

Cost of set up lighting security software badge stamper any employees I hire soil and so on.

This is the best possible scenario.  I know this guy well, and he can afford this.  

He may say something like this casually as bs but he gave me homework and research to do.

This means he is serious.  

 

I get to price LED for a 2000 square foot canopy including veg and nursery. 

Then I go on to soil consumables containers water electric and so on.

But we all know lighting comes first. 

Anyone who uses LED over a large area please chime in, what is the setup and running cost of systems at what size and coverage and how are the yields quality and so on. 

Also anyone working in Washington who knows anything I should know let fly, I am now in over my head and I have a few months to catch up if I am lucky.  

It's not a huge deal, he knows me and knows this is like a bug hitting a windshield, but he has seen this bug hit several of them over the years and go right on flying.

I currently grow under HPS, but I'm about to run my first LED at home so any info on home sized LED would be helpful too.

 

 

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I'm no help, but good luck. Sounds like you have a pretty cool adventure ahead of you.

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First of all, congratulations with this awesome opportunity! Before going big i would do a few runs with led so you know what you are talking about. Secondly: growing organic is not ideal for bigger grows if you ask me. I would say: go hydro and work with an ebb and flow system. This has proven itself to be very functional and the weed is just as good as organic grown! I have no experience with led myself, but i've heard it is a different experience. 

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I second Hamme Hydro

 

I do not recommend led for such grows.  I would recommend CMH lights.  Ceramic metal halide lights.

However but before that, I suggest a proper business plan.  It will bring science to the endeavor and remove much of the "luck" that goes with a business/enterprise.  The following aspects are included for a genuinely effective business plan.  In the past a business plan was much more robust than today as banks only care about the collateral today rather than fitness of the business. 

  • I have looked at many such eager investors and enterprises and unfortunately I often have said what they want to do not want to hear and illustrate the flaws and reasons it likely wont work because the business plan illustrates the difficulties and barriers that they will face.  The business plan is your blue print and from that you prove on paper the soundness of the enterprise.  Depending on that outcome.
    • If you are responsible for sales and marketing than a business management plan is required.  This is most important as it illustrates directly how the enterprise will earn and sell its products. 
    • It is not necessarily a build it and they will come kind of thing.  I can you tell of much heart ache of people who went to California thinking they would make tons of money only to be told no thank you by purchasers and for a wide variety of reasons.
  • You then make an implementation plan where you write how and why you will setup and begin the enterprise.  A detailed plan.
  • Then you make an operational plan which describes how you will run the day to day operations in detail.

Examples of issue to account for, the price of finished product and the fluctuating prices over the course of the year as supply and demand go up and down for various reasons.  You have no luxury of an operational problem such as bugs, mold/mildew or any negative growing issue.  You have to be perfect each and every time.

Washington state currently has a huge surplus of product that it would be difficult to enter the market with a good price.  The Feds are beginning to go after illegal grows, large size in that state.  This means you must make sure all aspects of the business are proper and in accordance with local, county and state laws.  Zoning is a big deal along with ensuring all regulations are not just met but easily proved.

With so many people growing I myself would be worried about being able to compete in such an environment.

I write that above as to help.  If you like I will review anything you put together for the high price of nothing but that is to be paid upfront!!!

Hempyfan.

Jah Bless!

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We're thinking combination of LED and either DE or CMH. 

It's what almost all of the indoor farmers here are using already.   As far as business plan, we are doing that right now.  I am tasked with costing the gear consumables and utilities needed and he will be handling the building and purchasing a license.  Which I might have just found today while shopping lighting.  

I can do hydro but I like soil better, I get a way better flavor out of soil.  And if you get it right soil is almost as fast.  We will be running it here before we get going on this and start lab testing, if we have a problem passing, I may go hydro then.

Before we get really started we will have a cost benefit and full business plan laid out.   If the math does not add up to at least keeping the lights on, we will redo the whole thing and try again till it does work.

The business and operational plan is required by the state before they will issue or allow us to assume a license and move it.  The liquor control board here is terrified the federal govt will come tell them to stop to this state abides.  

Our plan for dealing with the market is the same one I used when I sold pot.  Just grow better pot than they do, so ours sells first.  If this does not pan out we start extracting.  

So far as yields go;

gallery_833_383_12929.jpg

got that down.  

This is Lady Cane / Jack Hammer here, so you can kinda guess how strong it is.

Marketing of any kind  is not allowed here and sales are only to retailers who we show sample product to so that really doesn't get front burner yet.  My only real worry is quality control, and that is nothing new to me.

I just have to nail it 'every time' like you said.

Ultimately what got me the funding in the first place is the same thing that will sell the product.  

We have plenty of time, we are currently running a rental business that is the source of all the fun money we are spending on this project. 

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I should point out the reason we are starting a low tier farm (2k sq foot or smaller) is to build a business model to explore the industry in advance of what we all know is going to be federal legalization at some point in the not too distant future.

If something that small can stay afloat in this sea, were in.

 

Still lots of diligence to do, and we may end up completely changing our basic goal by the time we are done with the math.

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Are you Kidding me? And no one is going How Freaking Sweet is this!!!!!!! Whoa, that is just too cool.

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Good luck SOA

it sound sweet 

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Yep it may actually happen.

First hurdle is what Hempy brought up, the plan.  

We have to find out around what the layout will be to bare bones start up and how much the utilities are going to be.  Then we work out weather it will ever pay itself off, if there is an acceptable chance of that happening were on.

I already found a license to assume through some other friends of mine I was going to tap if this didn't happen.  I also have another tier 1 farm to consult with now.  Someone else I was hitting up for a job of all people.  They are just set up and running as producer only so I have a good model to look at right here in town.   

So far as the set up later, we plan on doing the same thing I do already with the totes.  We may do hydro if I can't get soil past lab testing but we would rather run these because they do not need constant care.  

We are still running the rental business.   That is an advantage that doesn't show as much, we have everything from plumbing to electrical work covered at a good price and can do much of the work ourselves.  And we are the most Low Overhead guys there are.  

That is really the name of the game starting this up.  

Putting out good stuff at a competitive cost.

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WOW a dream unfolds!! Good luck in your venture. That would be a very exciting project to be part of. Best wishes!!

I just recently saw one of these up close like. When the guy turned that wild thing on, I was completely blown away, first how quickly it came on, then the intensity of it, was truly awe inspiring to me as a personal grower.

Once I checked it out and you can get them in 2440V (of course,NOT for a personal grower) makes them better for commercial use. The other thing was the gigantic light foot print it beamed down, just blew me away!! He had it plugged into a Kill A Watt and it running around 516 watts for the hour I was looking at it for. I'll bet a 240V will be less usage.

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Lots of logistics man, lots of planning, what great fun you will have!! Again Best of Luck in your endeavors!! WOW!

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What I found so far;

My new customers are not smoking it, they are retailers who are looking for a markup.

The wholesale price here is low to the point anything flowering longer than 9 weeks flat is costing more than it's worth. 

Purchasing the license and getting the space up to code will be more expensive then all the equipment used in the grow put together.

The regulations are nowhere near as tight as I thought they were.

Even with the low wholesale prices and excise tax it can still more than pay for itself though it's not the bonanza it once was.

 

Rather than growing out long flowering hazes I'll be running short stubby skunks, got an insanely stinky cat pee skunk that will do nicely.  We still have to sort out the property and license transfer before we can really settle on a floor plan.  Might be using a small space that they own or might be renting a larger one depending on lots of things we don't quite know yet.

 

So on goes the vetting while I sift skunks in the back room.

 

 

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What about a GH with supplemental lighting?

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A greenhouse would be Awesome but it's the next tier up, all small tier farms are all indoor.  The large tier farms are all zoned agricultural and treated as regular farms while the smaller tiers are zoned industrial or rural and treated more like cannabis factories.  

The rules are nowhere near as strict as I thought, the farm we are thinking of buying out is about 4 blocks away from the property we want to use.  The wholesale prices are way better than I thought too.  Spoke with another tier 1 farmer today who sold out at 3 and a half to 4 dollars a gram in a matter of days.   They have some nice lights for sale too but we have bigger fish to fry yet.  

I have to embrace kushes again, flowering 12 to 14 weeks is not really a productive use of what little canopy space I'll have.  

Hundreds of seedlings..., Hundreds

I have till at least October to get the property we want to use, unless I get blindsided by a turnkey offer that we can't pass up.  

That would be just like me.

 

So now I am trying to track down two or three more of the smaller farmers locally for more advice while we shop licenses and crunch numbers.   

 

Compliance is going to be the only hurdle so far as I can tell.  We have to sort out how to bill the water in a property that provides water under the assumption that nobody in a million years would ever start a farm in one of the units they own.  

 

We may just meter the place and pay the owners for it, or just not say anything depending on how much water we use in a 2000 square foot canopy. 

ErUYMsEZ_400x400.jpg

 

Yeeeaaah we're just gonna pay for the water...

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Phuck what a great project, man I'm thrilled for you!! I've spent my 18 years just figuring out how to grow a perpetual in a basement area...now your going to do just that on an enormous size!!  What a great trip!!

Best wishes man!! 

Best wishes for sure!!

Maybe I do not understand properly, but why not just dig your well? 

When I called a guy in Colorado about putting a well on a property out there it was like $5,000-$6,000 for the hole an well casing, if I remember right. He did ask if I had water rights there, and of course, that is always a first question before buying property out west. Many folks bought into those vast acres, for super cheap money. There is a reason, and they usually do NOT include water rights. Yeah, big mistake.

Also that is a excellent price for wholesale, IMHO. Plenty of room for very good profit.

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$5000-6000 is super cheap for a well. Out here in Cali it runs right at $10 per foot,  typical well is around 100 ft. Then the additional costs of pumps, pressure tanks ect. 

I'd just run the water you have available.  Deal with that issue as it arises. You are expecting it may come up, so if/when it does, you are prepared. Keep looking into your options an only fork out the dollars IF you need to.

 

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Sorry didn’t read the whole thread 

have you thought about rain water storage ?

 

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All that applies to the larger tier outdoor farms.

Ideally the property we are using will allow for a 1000 square foot flower canopy supported by about 400 square feet of veg and nursery space.  This leaves plenty of room for drying storing processing admin ect. 

We own the inside of the unit but not the outer building that houses it, so there are some things we cannot do.  This will be losing money not being able to recycle and compost but gaining on not needing labor we don't already have.  The state rules make hiring people or most other nice things we could be doing economically unworkable. 

The plan is to run those rubbermade totes like I always do with the usual mix of soil and bark shavings probably topped with rice hulls to keep the dust down and encourage soil fungus up to the top.  I get very good results out of that with very little work, which is the key.   

From here much of what happens depends on the rules we have to squeeze the facility through and how much that costs vs renting a larger space that allows for more canopy and space for hash making gear.

We want to put this together as cheaply as practical so it gets paid down sooner.  I really don't want to be paying off the cap five years from now, I would rather be saving to go bigger. 

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How did things pan out? I'm just seeing this and laughing a little bit. I remember that pic and that bud. I never forgot it, ha. I still think it's freaking crazy good looking. Glad to hear it turned to candy and hit the spot with the money guys... Best vibes. Hoping you're just very busy setting up a commercial grow these days.

peace

mrG

 

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Hey, if you're still researching, I might be able to hook you up with a few people that could share their experiences. I live in a town with quite a few commercial grows and extractor operations. Candy makers, too. It's a small town and I know a few of the industry peeps. 

peace

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Just got the property back from the tenant who was renting it, and had a meeting about where what is at.

It's definitely happening, just not as fast as I would like.  I was able to show some flowering plants this time, I am running some of the magenta stuff now.  My own ver of Sirus Black, only I have it in regular seed.  And the skunks of course.   Finally got the guy on board with the quality and patience part of this.  No you can't use a food dehydrator because it will cook off the flavor and the effect will be ruined with it. Stuff like that.

The plan is to set up the small tier farm, grow old school organic, and humiliate the competition till they come up with our generous consulting fee or someone buys the farm from us, then start a larger one.

So far so good, but so slow.

 

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7 hours ago, Scone_Of_Ark said:

Just got the property back from the tenant who was renting it, and had a meeting about where what is at.

It's definitely happening, just not as fast as I would like.  I was able to show some flowering plants this time, I am running some of the magenta stuff now.  My own ver of Sirus Black, only I have it in regular seed.  And the skunks of course.   Finally got the guy on board with the quality and patience part of this.  No you can't use a food dehydrator because it will cook off the flavor and the effect will be ruined with it. Stuff like that.

The plan is to set up the small tier farm, grow old school organic, and humiliate the competition till they come up with our generous consulting fee or someone buys the farm from us, then start a larger one.

So far so good, but so slow.

 

what is best in life? "Set up small tier farm,. Grow old school organics,. And humillate the competition..... Scone the Barbarian!!!

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just seeing this and will follow along as i can recall to do so. HUGE CONGRATS on so far so good and I'm sure in due time things will work themselves out to your benefit. i sure hope the universal karmic energy hears this. 

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Hi

I feel i can chime in, having designed and sourced and constructed my own leds for flower for a 100sqft area.

First of all, would you be building and/or designing your leds? If so, is it a design you've tested? If you haven't tested it, then the launch of a new business isn't the time for R&D. Especially as your plan is to create a model and expand or get into consulting, STICK WITH WHAT HAS PROFITABLY WORKED FOR YOU. Any testing can be done in parallel if needed. 

If you're buying leds that have a solid reputation and you've seen the results they can give from a fellow trustworthy grower, use them. Otherwise, stick to hps or whatever you are using now. 

Second, i would advise against soil for a larger operation, its no fun bringing in cartloads of manure and soil additives. But if that is your USP and you think you can get it to work, go for it. Just remember how much easier it is to set up, say, and undercurrent system and just keep one pipe and water spigot lil

For a 2000 sqft operation, if you are using hydro and not organic, consider investing in automated nutrient dosing apparatus. 

Don't underestimate the cost of fitting the place out with necessary electricals, and don't skimp anywhere on safety. 

I have seen your grows, you're a pro for sure. But growing on a larger scale involves a certain type of thinking that growing on a small scale doesn't. I only mean to give you the advice that i learned when scaling up. 

Best vibes 

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Yeah, the first time I toured a large grow op, I was amazed at all the new problems that arise from scale. It instantly made me want to go home and grow 6 plants, lol. Bad ass profits, though. And lots of nonstop work. 

As more states legalize it's gonna be harder and harder to break into this industry, imo. Lots of people have 7-8 years of experience now and a huge jump on others getting in late. 

peace

mrG

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