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root-brain-theory

Making the Most Potent MCT Oil

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Greetings Opengrow,

I am curious what the opinion here is on these three options I've come up with for making canna oil: 

Use decarboxylated plant material to directly infuse MCT oil (by using a butter machine, double boiler, or crockpot, etc.).

Extract decarboxylated plant material with ethanol and infuse MCT oil with the dried extract.

Extract the material first, then decarboxylate the resulting extract, and then infuse MCT oil with it.

I am assuming that performing a full extraction and then decarboxylating the extract before infusing MCT oil would be the preferred method, because maybe it would be easier to decarboxylate extract without destroying goodies? I also assume that ethanol/isopropanol would extract raw material more completely than MCT oil, and then infusing that extract into MCT oil would be much easier than infusing it with raw material.

I'm also curious if the possibility of MCT oil carrying cannabinoids into the bloodstream without undergoing first-pass liver metabolism might actually weaken the effect by lowering the amount of 11-OH-THC produced? Not sure if anyone even knows the answer to that one yet.

 

Thanks!

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The best I have found is to make the concentrated cannabis oil, then emulsify it with the MCT oil. Coconut oil occupies the liver, while more cannabinoids are delivered to our endocannibinoid system. If you use it under your tongue, you by pass the liver as well.

You will get more cannabinoids with making cannabis oil with alcohol then if infusing into a high fat such as coconut oil. It can be done either way, infuse the coconut oil with your herb,  herb should be decarbed first if infusing at low temp as I do.

You will have an easier way to control potency, to determine mg needed for dose, and you will have a more potent tincture if using cannabis oil into MCT oil.

With cannabis oil, I take the green out, with an infusion you will have the chlorophyll in it. I don't care for the green, nor do I use it since I have a blood clotting disorder and can not use vit K. So I avoid it, but some feel it makes better meds with the green in it. But you can make cannabis oil with the green in it as well. I prefer it without.

So depending also on what you might feel is a better medicine, with green in or out. My preference is cannabis oil mixed into MCT oil.

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As usual, I agree with Gardenartus. Use 95% ethanol for the extraction. The resulting oil can be used orally or infuse your MCT, butter, honey, etc. I have only decarbed prior to extraction, but plan on doing it after on my next run. Gardenartus makes some very potent oil, follow her instructions and you will be very happy. 

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Thanks! I've seen many tutorials, but I couldn't find anyone suggesting make an ethanol extract before infusing the oil. I suppose I'll just decarb before or after depending on which one is easier. I feel like decarbing after extraction would be better. 

It's my understanding that MCT oil itself has the property of being absorbable without digestion, so it passes into the blood much sooner than other oils. I'm not sure if it circumvents first-pass liver metabolism. I know that blending it with coffee or tea causes caffeine to dissolve into the lipids and then cross the blood-brain barrier more easily. I'm assuming the same thing happens with cannabinoids.

I've read some threads here and I like the idea of adding piperine (black pepper) and turmeric. I'm going to try infusing regular coconut oil for use in "turmeric golden milk". Kanna (sceletium tortuosum) will also be a great thing to try. 

I don't think it would dissolve well (and it tastes terrible), but Agmatine Sulfate is also an interesting supplement I've been using for a while. Maybe it could be added to capsules. It is supposed to increase the action of cannabinoids on the CB1 receptor - it seems to work quite well, but I can't rule out placebo. I've never met anyone else who knew about using it to potentiate cannabis so I have no other anecdotes. Google has a few. It's used as a bodybuilding pre-workout supplement for vasodilation and so it's pretty cheap and available.

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I put a tut up, probably the one you are referring too, that added turmeric and black pepper. Black pepper makes almost all we eat more bio available. Ginger does as well. Very interesting that the combo of turmeric and black pepper, used during infusion, actually makes cannabis more bio available as well. Since I am now using cannabis oil, instead of infusion into MCT oil. I infuse the MCT OIl with the turmeric, black pepper, and keep it on low heat, I add the cannabis oil. Once I strain it, I use a sonic stirrer on it to keep all emulsified.

You have to use that in a cap, it is Gawd awful tasting lol. I would add your Agmatine to it as well. Cap it up instead of using straight, will take longer to kick in then tincture, but still effective with the MCT oil allowing more cannabinoids to be delivered to your system.

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@Justcozz do you think you will see any differences between decarb pior and decarb after ??? Decarb after would probably be more thouragh and maybe easier to do out of the two , if choosing one way 

@gardenartus does both , can boiler ( pior ) and magnetic heat stirrer ( after ) to be sure to be sure , with some winterisation and a reclaim inbetween : )

 

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Oh! I forgot one thing, yes I find decarbing in the liquid state, the cannabis oil, keeps it more fluid. So I decarb in the liquid state. I use a distiller that starts the decarb process, then use a magnetic heated plate for the finish. :) Yep Ifish is correct, and to make better tasting oil, winterize it for 72 hours, drops the lipids and waxes out so you can filter them out, also makes your oil almost pure, so much more potent.

Think I kind of answered your question to JC ifish lol it is better if decarbed in liquid state.

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Nope. as long as it is heated for a long enough time. If you are just burning off alcohol, in small batches, it would be advisable to decarb first. But in larger batches, burn off can take hours, using a distiller the heat decarbs while reclaiming. But what I have done with small batches, is either when most is purged off, the alcohol, finish off in oven or hot plate, that finishes off the decarb.

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So my ingredients of interest are:

Piperine (black pepper)

Ginger

Turmeric

What about cinnamon cassia and myrrh oil? I've read that cinnamon also does something good, if not just make it taste better.

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Myrrh has anti inflammatory and anti bacterial properties, but I would not use oil, I would grind the resin. I do that with frankincense. If using cinnamon, it helps to keep blood sugar under control and anti inflammatory and can help heart health. But you should use ceylon, not cassia if using on a daily basis, cassia has to much coumarin for daily health benefit. 

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Ah yes I remembered that there was something about cinnamon that was not good. You seem to know quite a bit! I don't really know what cassia is - I was interested in cinnamon because of what I read here:

https://skunkpharmresearch.com/holy-anointing-oil-and-holy-shit/

I guess it calls for cinnamon leaf and bark oil. I've read a few other people claiming cinnamon has some positive effect on the bioavailability or something like that. At some point I'll run out of room for ingredients, but I like to keep my turmeric/piperine mixtures separate from everything else anyway - turmeric needs to be quarantined or it will stain EVERYTHING.

That Skunk Pharm Research site is very good, here is another important and relevant article:

https://skunkpharmresearch.com/decarboxylation/

 

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I learned a lot from skunk pharmacy over the years :) I became disabled at a fairly young adult age, and was on the pharmie med bandwagon for many years. Just kept getting sicker, so started to dabble in herbs and the like, a decade ago I started to get more serious, dumped most all pharmie meds and went to cannabis and naturals. I study up for patients now, so kind of on hunt for info most days. I have a lot to learn, but sure have learned a lot that has improved my health and others as well. Spread the knowledge, it will make the world a healthier place.

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Thank you for the help! 

According to skunkpharm, extracted cannabinoids (kief in their example) decarboxylates more quickly than raw flowers.  Maybe there's a safe way to keep it sealed while heating in order to avoid evaporation of terps?  Dissolved about 1g of crude oil (not a "quick wash" ) into 50ml of pure MCT oil and let it sit in boiling water for about 45 minutes. Ethanol extract dissolves right into MCT oil, but I assume that it should be heated for a while in order to get the cannabinoids into the fats. Maybe I'm wrong about that?  Either way, turned out some very potent medicine.

I personally didn't realize how much more medicinal cannabis can be if consumed orally instead of inhaled.  Vaporizing does not even come close, and the anxiousness provoked by inhaling too much with a low tolerance is completely absent when eaten instead (I suppose that's not the case for everyone).  Adding it to the turmeric/black pepper paste seemed to noticeably increase the potency.  I think it's worth experimenting with Cinnamon oil and Myrrh gum as well, but I'm not sure of any concrete evidence that they help the potency. 

Tremendous! Thanks!

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19 hours ago, root-brain-theory said:

Thank you for the help! 

According to skunkpharm, extracted cannabinoids (kief in their example) decarboxylates more quickly than raw flowers.  Maybe there's a safe way to keep it sealed while heating in order to avoid evaporation of terps?  Dissolved about 1g of crude oil (not a "quick wash" ) into 50ml of pure MCT oil and let it sit in boiling water for about 45 minutes. Ethanol extract dissolves right into MCT oil, but I assume that it should be heated for a while in order to get the cannabinoids into the fats. Maybe I'm wrong about that?  Either way, turned out some very potent medicine.

I personally didn't realize how much more medicinal cannabis can be if consumed orally instead of inhaled.  Vaporizing does not even come close, and the anxiousness provoked by inhaling too much with a low tolerance is completely absent when eaten instead (I suppose that's not the case for everyone).  Adding it to the turmeric/black pepper paste seemed to noticeably increase the potency.  I think it's worth experimenting with Cinnamon oil and Myrrh gum as well, but I'm not sure of any concrete evidence that they help the potency. 

Tremendous! Thanks!

Once you hit it with alcohol kills the terps. When I decarb for butters, honey, etc. I do it in a pan wrapped in foil and allow it to come to room temp before I remove the foil. I do not know if terps are floating around, but if you remove it before it comes to room temp, a cloud will hit you. I assume it is moisture mixed with terps, but no chemist here.

It mixes really easily and you don't need boiling water. I simply heat in double boiler, or just heat the syringe of oil in a cup of hot tap water, same with the MCT oil. Once I stir it together, I will let it sit in a sonic stirrer, that keeps it emulsified, but I am not even sure that is needed, it stays dissolved quite well in the MCT oil.

Turmeric and black pepper actually makes cannabis more bio available, cooking with it I have noticed bumped up the effectiveness.

Eating it is where the magic happens :) That is when it repairs your DNA, gets rid of free radicals, repairs so much in our bodies. Some folks find eating it sends them into anxiety :) I use CBD with my THC cannabis oil, and that keeps the anxiety at bay.

@DukeA#1 made some with cinnamon I do believe :)

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Oh, I didn't know Alcohol would affect terpenes? I think I've achieved QWISO before that didn't lose all the flavors.  Never turns out as delicious as BHO though. 

I also decarbed on a pan wrapped up in foil.  I also tried a canning jar, which worked very well, but can't really be sealed.  They're also not oven safe, so that's not a good idea.  Maybe it would be okay if I make sure to let it change temperature slowly, but glass particles would definitely be bad.  Something similar made from stainless would be ideal.  I saw a tutorial on YouTube where she used some kind of stainless steel container, and put it in a pressure cooker for 45 min.  Another one used a covered casserole dish for fresh flowers.

I make "turmeric golden milk" which is just turmeric, black pepper, and coconut oil mixed with water and cooked until the water evaporates.  1 tbsp blended into milk is a good hefty dosage (it's not too easy to cap - stains everything it touches).  Very effective!   I added a few milliliters of the infused MCT to the paste and the effect is noticeable.

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You can do it in water in one of those water proof baggies :) Think @Justcozz did that, and sealed in a butter knife for weight I think to keep the pot in the water. Water boils at 212, so you would probably need to do it for 3 hours to decarb it.

Turmeric with pepper is awesome on it's own. I had a patient we tried everything on his sciatic nerve, he was a butcher and it would hit him and drop him to his knees, not something you want going on with fast speed saws lol. I mean we went through about half year, trying all kind of cannabis mixes, balms, when I added in turmeric, black pepper with CBD, that did the trick. :)

Have you tried rosen? I can't stand BHO lol I think you take our pretty non addictive plant and add say What To It? Lord forbid, now it is an addictive, cancer causing cough cough, med lol. I've air dried cannabis oil with no decarb, and make smokable from it. Sorry I just am on the band wagon for clean meds, can't stand BHO< but that is MO :)

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Yeah, I’ve done it sealed in vacuum bags and boiled it. It takes about 2 hours that way. Works well for not getting the roasted flavor that I get when done in the oven. I also think it does a better job at retaining the turpentines. Damn, I need to get my girls into flower. All this talk of oil is making me want some. Bud is getting scarce at the Cozz Crib. 

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I have seen that method as well, but boiling stuff inside a plastic bag seems like a bad idea to me, just because I'm afraid of plastic leaching into things I consume. I suppose they're HDPE so my fear is probably unwarranted. I think that maybe a covered ceramic casserole dish is what I'll try next. Here's a link to the video where she uses a pressure cooker: 

https://youtu.be/YIQX_AckxpM

Very monotone speaker, but she seems quite knowledgeable. The stainless steel container she has looks perfect, but in a pressure cooker I suppose could just use some canning jars for sure. Already have a big pressure cooker on duty :D

I Ihink you're right to be distrustful of petroleum distillates, because they're probably all contaminated, but if properly done (by a chemist who personally re-distills his butane supply and properly purges the extract) I'm going to trust it. It's too good! I can't achieve anything as flavorful with QWISO/QWET extracts, but I will try winterizing soon. Until now I also thought that isopropyl alcohol was a petroleum distillate as well, but apparently it's "primarily produced by combining water and propene in a hydration reaction or by hydrogenating acetone."  Edit: ...and Propene is a petroleum distillate, so I was kinda right the first time.

I'll probably never blast again anyway since that whole "mystery goo" thing - even though the official conclusion (someone had a bunch of the 'goo' analyzed by HPLC) was that we're not likely to be exposed to anything hazardous in relevant amounts. But that stuff that was in there was BAD stuff.

Rosin will probably be the way to go for vaporizing - I'm currently torn between trying out a good (low temp) hair straightener, or just going for a real personal press like something from Dulytek...anyway, that's a different topic I suppose. I definitely won't be trying to use rosin for edibles anyway - I'd rather do a full ethanol extract and get everything I can out of it (flavor isn't a concern to me). Although, I suppose a cleaner extract would end up being a more potent infusion per milliliter - less junk would be taking up space in the solution.

I'm going to keep trying various mixtures with all the ingredients mentioned and figure out what I think works the best ( it would be hard to include them all in one solution ).

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I do not decarb in it but I use a Ball water bath for my infusions, love it, temp control, use ball jars in it. They have those souse temp things, bet you could use it and ball jars in a water bath. I will have to check her video out. :)

I think winterization is one of the most important steps, makes your oil taste better and it is much more potent.

You could always buy terpenes and add to it. Here they are using terpenes to make ejuice with :) Much healthier.

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Dang G.A., just feel your posts are like hot stock tips!

Just makes ya want to pick your brain even more! Yeah I am one of Gardenartus red nose followers. She provides medical and comedic relief.(lol for a week when GA posted , " wuts up now bitches it's me Escobar") I needed that comedic relief!  My nose is red cus been brown nosing so much it turned red.. Ur nose will be the same when you feel the joy of helping. 

 

@RBT,

I believe everyone should make All of G.A. Recipes to have in their medicine cabinet. G.A. Mentioned something about giving a basket full of her meds to her patients and they would use what works for them. Use what works for you!  It's a great yet simple perspective on things

Follow!!!follow her recipe/tut on adding the Frankensence to the MCT. I love love the taste of Frankensence in my coffee!!

This stuff does the real bam and kicks it up a notch!  It is strong and was made to be capped. But I have found by mistake if you put a drop of it in ur coffe, the Frankensence, black pepper, turmeric with GA tut for mct cinnamon/lectin. It's Goodie goodie coffee in da mornings.. It's does give you energy like crazy. My mom knows it. RIP.  When the GA said her feedback from patients was more than positive. I made this as my moms day time tincture. It's really strong tasting as a tincture and I had to hide it in some food to get her to take it. Just a drop for 87lb.senior.  It was meant to be capped. Made GA day and night MCT infused recipes but found out you will run out of meds fast. It's easier to to add oil to MCT. (Easier time wise but love the idea of no solvent used) try and use what works for you.

Try it I wish If I could go back in time and do things different with the knowledge.

If you go down this road, stop and read gardenartus signs/posts(follow it) because I end up doing things a little different and end up wondering what if I follow her tuts to a T???

 I follow her tuts on infusion of MCT it's great.

It's not for me but you should try all of her methods. I believe my OCD anxiety makes me squeeze the living shite out every bit of flowers. It takes the fun out of it. There is a lot of cleaning anxiety, goofing up anxiety etc.When GA says she made a big batch of butter I'm like dam that's a shite load of work!( I found out the hard way it is easier to make the oil and add it to your  Frankensence,blk pepper,turmeric, infused MCT. LOLjust like GA said).I then use the alcohol distiller method of GA to the left over infused MCT. ( manuka honey is wonderful with this! Stop my nagging cough)It made a great oil for a topical. (Add alcohol to left over honey infusion, night infusion, all of the MCT infusion leftovers. Document document !! doses and recipes so you can repeat what works for you!!  I had a good tincture which made my mom eat and drink like crazy but I ran out of tincture and when I finally made more it was diff and did not have same effect.

Oh do yourself a favor and buy one of those heated/stirring machines. GA posted a pic of hers. It makes life a lot simpler. I think the oil I made gave me some heart palpitations because there was some alcohol left in there. Really wished I bought the alcohol GA uses and used her winterization method. it does make cleaner tasting oil! I was shock when I dabbed some winterized oil I made. It's like night and day very clean. But just like GA mentioned do what works for you! I made oil which looks like RSO. (Un winterized, flower, stems fans leaves, roots! Soaked in alcohol for a week RSO oil) keep a ur medicine cabinet full of variety of meds and use what works for you! It's the GA way.

Also, gardenartus sez shove it, inhale it, dabb etc.....etc BUT YOU MUST EAT IT!!!  This is very important point!!

I thought micro doses was enough for my mom but like everyone you get immune to it. Make the oil and start the RSO treatment and supplement all day with her wonderful meds!!!

GA has said it time and time again.

It's all about the love. Rhino said it, God demands it, and GARDENARTUS sez it the light at the end of the tunnel. It's true depression makes ya want to end it but the love in life is in giving the love. This is what this place and its members does to you. Feel like I owe Gardenartus money but she runs on unconditional love. It's contagious 

You must try her honey infusion!!!! Like GARDENARTUS sez its its ashame how some people don't see the magic. just love❤️❤️❤️and more love.

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@gardenartusMyrrh has anti inflammatory and anti bacterial properties, but I would not use oil, I would grind the resin. I do that with frankincense. 

This is so interesting to me.  Gardenartus Have you tried to make holy anointing oil? If so please do tell.

I got recipe from skunkpharm and used the liquid myrrh. For whatever reason I didn't trust and like it. Probably because someone said myrrh can be bad for you in high doses. But now I would like to try it using the resin as suggested.

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Wow Duke, I am blown away! What really blows me away is you used almost all my suggestions! YAY! Wow! You have me pleasantly red faced lol. What a wonderful post to me lol. Wow

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Well I just tried decarboxylating using a completely sealed jar inside the oven again (not smart) - I just sealed it gently after it reached ~225°F and then went for 45 min. The results are undeniably better than my previous methods. The aroma of the flowers was not altered too drasticallly. It still smells amazing, but you can tell it was cooked just a little. Nothing like the other methods I tried. Slapping herb on a pan and throwing it in the oven was certainly destroying goods. I tasted the extract as the alcohol was almost finished distilling off and the flavor was delicious (for what it is) - all the terps seem to be saved. The resulting MCT oil is more potent than the other batches. I think that maybe proper and careful decarboxylation is the most important part of this whole process. Some kind of airtight stainless steel container with a thermometer reading the internal temperature would be unbeatable.

This stuff is really, really good!

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