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Halforc

Regular (Unfeminised) seeds in a single tent

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G'day there,

                     I feel a bit dumb asking but I'm having trouble getting my head around how to grow regular (unfeminised) seeds in a single tent/room. Am I stupid for even considering it?

The problem is that I won't know if they are Male or Female until I switch to Flower, and thus it's hard to know how long to veg them for in order to fill my tent properly I suppose, because the amount of viable females is totally unknown. 

Does anyone in my situation even do this or do you all use feminised seeds or clones? I really want to grow regular seeds and make this work and the only decision I can come up with is to basically just hope that i get close to an optimal amount of females and if i don't fill the tent everytime then so be it, I'm not really growing for quantity anyway. I don't really want to have to throw plants out either if I end up with too many females for my tent. This is sounding harder by the minute haha.

As to why I'm growing regulars- well I love the variety in different phenotypes. 

I'm not sure I'm explaining this very well and i feel like I'm missing some aspect of growing but I'd love some input or advice, particularly if anyone else out there is doing the same? 

Cheers

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i´d say,most of us did that lol. that´s the problem when grow regs from seed....you don´t know what you get.  my tent is well filled with 9-12plants. so i put 16 plants in to get 9-12 ladies from. it mostly worked well so far

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I think you will do fine, like Saxo, put more then what you want to grow out. Course you could end up with all females lol. You don't have a way to veg outside of the one tent? If so you could just save the extras for next go around, and they will be big lol.

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I was growing plants in 3 gallon containers.  For that I would rely on feminized seed.  There is no point in growing large males if the object is females.  Now i am switching to growing in 1 gallon containers.  Muscular dystrophy makes handling bigger plants awkward.

One of the benefits of growing in smaller containers is that i now enjoy growing regular seeds.  The catch is that about half the plants get thrown away once they show their flowers.  (I like to grow seed, so not all males are wasted.)  The plants are vegged for about 5 to 6 weeks.  The downside is the wasted materials.

If you want to grow bigger plants, flower the plants after 3 or 4 weeks.  Identify the females.  Cull the males.  Switch back to a vegetative lighting schedule.  Transplant to larger pots, and grow them out.

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As Gardenartus advised.

Can you do a mother/backup/clone tent/area in addition to your tent.  This tent would be cheaper than main tent as the lighting and environmental cost is lower.

If so, you can do what you want after one grow and then continually improve depending on desire.

 

  1. plant seeds,
  2. Grow to desired size
  3. Take clones/backup/potential mothers.
    1. Put in second mother tent.
    2. Root clones for second round.
  4. Flip to flower regular plants
  5. As plant develop make cuts to backups.
    1. Get rid of those who develop unfavorably at first
    2. Later make cuts based on quality of final flowering.
  6. When you get in range of harvest
    1. take samples to dry each week from each pheno from early harvest to end of harvest time frame.  Mark them well.
    2. This way you can determine when you like best to harvest the pheno of your choice.
  7. After harvest, select the mother or mothers you want to go forward with and clone them for next crop.
    1. You determined the harvest time based on number 6 above.
  8. After that harvest your rinse and repeat and speed up by having clones ready to go at time your last round is ready.

This will give you consistency in yield and quality that matches your growing skills and knowledge.

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what @Hempyfan and @gardenartus said is what I do, plus I get in a outdoor crop where I make selections and take cuttings to run inside over winter. I think you have the ability to do this. A small veg tent or closet is key.

You don't need to throw a plant into flower to sex, most solid females will show after the 5th or 6th node, I'm close to 99% correct at a foot tall. I don't like to fuck with the light period or cause the plant to use that extra energy making transitions from veg to flower to veg.

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What the others said, but you can also top the plants early and put those cuts under 12’s, you will know which are males and females in about 2 weeks. They may even show sex before they root. You can continue to grow them, chop males, pollenate the females, whatever you want. Last run, that’s what I did, I was able to pollenate some females and make a few seeds without messing with the main grow. 

 

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Or just do fems this round and think about all the other stuff next time , after the tent is dailed in , and everything else is running smoothly etc : )

 

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On 9/26/2019 at 11:20 AM, Halforc said:

 I feel a bit dumb asking but I'm having trouble getting my head around how to grow regular (unfeminised) seeds in a single tent/room. Am I stupid for even considering it?

The problem is that I won't know if they are Male or Female until I switch to Flower, and thus it's hard to know how long to veg them for in order to fill my tent properly I suppose, because the amount of viable females is totally unknown. 

Hey there Halfroc,

did you consider the 12/12 method from No Mercy Supply?

I have to say that I don't have any experience yet, but I just started last weekend my first 12/12 from seed grow. After sprouting I planted the seeds in in 2l pots. As soon as they show sex, I will transplant them into bigger (8l) pots. I know this method is doubted a lot, but some who actually tried like it. In a few weeks I can say more.

happy weekend everyone!

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On 26 September 2019 at 10:28 PM, saxo said:

i´d say,most of us did that lol. that´s the problem when grow regs from seed....you don´t know what you get.  my tent is well filled with 9-12plants. so i put 16 plants in to get 9-12 ladies from. it mostly worked well so far

Ha Cheers saxo, well it's good to know I'm not alone then lol. You say you normally get between 9- 12; so I guess a grow space can handle a little bit of variation in the amount of females in there? My tent is 5x5 which i should have mentioned. I spose you can just train your plants slightly differently too depending on how many you get right?

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On 27 September 2019 at 3:21 AM, gardenartus said:

I think you will do fine, like Saxo, put more then what you want to grow out. Course you could end up with all females lol. You don't have a way to veg outside of the one tent? If so you could just save the extras for next go around, and they will be big lol.

Cheers gardenartus, yeah I think I'm overthinking it all because growing indoors in a confined space is new to me lol. As far as vegging outside of the tent, i do have a small cupboard I could maybe convert to another room, but I'm not in a position (yet) to make another area, unless I can get a cheap light I guess. The LED in my tent was quite expensive ($1400 AUS), but I know there is many cheaper Non-LED alternatives too, i just don't know what would be most suitable and i think heat could be a problem for me here. 

Do you know if you can veg plants outdoors and then put them under lights after? Because that could be an option if I end up with extras, but sort of defeats the purpose of moving inside for stealthy reasons:D.

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They do make less expensive LEDs, some really low priced, if concerned about heat, I would look at some of the lower cost LED for veg.

I think you risk sending them into flower mode if you do that, also issue of bringing things back in with the plant.

I will be where you are at next year, I have never grown outdoors lol I know I will be freaking a bit. :)

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22 hours ago, Gardener said:

I was growing plants in 3 gallon containers.  For that I would rely on feminized seed.  There is no point in growing large males if the object is females.  Now i am switching to growing in 1 gallon containers.  Muscular dystrophy makes handling bigger plants awkward.

One of the benefits of growing in smaller containers is that i now enjoy growing regular seeds.  The catch is that about half the plants get thrown away once they show their flowers.  (I like to grow seed, so not all males are wasted.)  The plants are vegged for about 5 to 6 weeks.  The downside is the wasted materials.

If you want to grow bigger plants, flower the plants after 3 or 4 weeks.  Identify the females.  Cull the males.  Switch back to a vegetative lighting schedule.  Transplant to larger pots, and grow them out.

Cheers Gardener, I do have a small amount of feminised seeds, managed to get some sugarpunch early in the year which I'm excited about so maybe I'll use them on my first grow just to get used to other aspects of indoor growing. I was also planning on trying some of Mephisto's auto's at some point too. Primarily though I want to grow regs and have a good few to get through already.

If it's ok for me to ask, How big is your growspace and how many plants are you trying to get in there if you are vegging 5-6 weeks in 1 gallon containers? 

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I have a 2' x 4' flowering tent.  There are still two 3-gallon plants in there.  There's about 12 1-gallon plants in there too.  Beginning about two months ago, I am starting at least one plant per week.   I have a separate veg tent for the younger plants.

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1 minute ago, gardenartus said:

They do make less expensive LEDs, some really low priced, if concerned about heat, I would look at some of the lower cost LED for veg.

I think you risk sending them into flower mode if you do that, also issue of bringing things back in with the plant.

I will be where you are at next year, I have never grown outdoors lol I know I will be freaking a bit. :)

Yeah very true, i hadn't thought about the whole pest thing either, that's probably a bad idea then haha, you probably just saved me a lot of problems in the long run lol. Yup they would definitely go to flower too, from about March till August here. I guess i didn't think that through properly haha. 

I just love growing outdoors though, and I think the sun and climate down here is pretty suited to it, but yeah there is obviously other environmental issues with that, as well as peeping neighbours and family while it's still illegal in my state haha. I'll have to do some research on cheaper LED's and other lighting option, it's probably realistically only really hot for 3 months though so I might be able to baby them through that period with a bit of extra effort.

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2 minutes ago, Gardener said:

I have a 2' x 4' flowering tent.  There are still two 3-gallon plants in there.  There's about 12 1-gallon plants in there too.  Beginning about two months ago, I am starting at least one plant per week.   I have a separate veg tent for the younger plants.

Wow, so you can actually really pack them in there then hey, that's actually really good to know. So there is no real issues with having plants at different stages of flowering then is there if you have a dedicated flower tent, as it's always on 12 hours, seems obvious now I'm typing it lol.

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Vent, vent, vent and fans :) I like the idea of growing outdoors, no electric bill lol. I won't shut the indoor down, gonna run both. The outdoor plants are to make oil, lots and lots and lots of oil. lol

I would never even attempt outdoor if not legal lol I would never sleep

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21 hours ago, Hempyfan said:

As Gardenartus advised.

Can you do a mother/backup/clone tent/area in addition to your tent.  This tent would be cheaper than main tent as the lighting and environmental cost is lower.

If so, you can do what you want after one grow and then continually improve depending on desire.

 

  1. plant seeds,
  2. Grow to desired size
  3. Take clones/backup/potential mothers.
    1. Put in second mother tent.
    2. Root clones for second round.
  4. Flip to flower regular plants
  5. As plant develop make cuts to backups.
    1. Get rid of those who develop unfavorably at first
    2. Later make cuts based on quality of final flowering.
  6. When you get in range of harvest
    1. take samples to dry each week from each pheno from early harvest to end of harvest time frame.  Mark them well.
    2. This way you can determine when you like best to harvest the pheno of your choice.
  7. After harvest, select the mother or mothers you want to go forward with and clone them for next crop.
    1. You determined the harvest time based on number 6 above.
  8. After that harvest your rinse and repeat and speed up by having clones ready to go at time your last round is ready.

This will give you consistency in yield and quality that matches your growing skills and knowledge.

Hey Hempyfan I've really got to thank you mate:grinning_respect:, as that is such a great breakdown for me and exactly what I needed. Thanks brother. 

I'm starting to get the feeling from all of these posts, that it would make sense for me to figure out some way to have a separate veg tent. It probably won't happen straight away but makes a lot of sense. If i was to do a veg tent, Do you happen to know if all non-LED lights emit the same amounts of heat or is there some a little bit cooler than others? Otherwise, i can look at a cheaper LED as gardenartus kindly advised.

My other question for you if you don't mind mate is to do with cloning. I have heard that it is a lot harder to clone once a plant is in flower, particularly towards the end of flower; is this true at all mate? 

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2 minutes ago, gardenartus said:

Vent, vent, vent and fans :) I like the idea of growing outdoors, no electric bill lol. I won't shut the indoor down, gonna run both. The outdoor plants are to make oil, lots and lots and lots of oil. lol

I would never even attempt outdoor if not legal lol I would never sleep

Haha yeah it's not very fun gardenartus! I get to the point where I have to smoke less and less or even quit because the paranoia gets to me big time lol. A couple times I've got too wasted and almost pulled my whole crop out because of perceived spying- "I'm sure that fucking magpie is snitching on me" hahaha.

One of my neighbours has a huge aerial coming out of their shed too and whenever I'd get super wasted I was sure it was linked to some kind of weed espionage device with a direct link to the cops lol. Sounds pretty stupid now haha. I always figured that my best defence against any peering neighbours was just to be really nice, friendly and helpful to them. That way if they did ever find out about my garden, they'd feel really guilty about dobbing me in:D.

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20 hours ago, baqualin said:

what @Hempyfan and @gardenartus said is what I do, plus I get in a outdoor crop where I make selections and take cuttings to run inside over winter. I think you have the ability to do this. A small veg tent or closet is key.

You don't need to throw a plant into flower to sex, most solid females will show after the 5th or 6th node, I'm close to 99% correct at a foot tall. I don't like to fuck with the light period or cause the plant to use that extra energy making transitions from veg to flower to veg.

Cheers baqualin, i think you are dead right mate after reading all responses. Yeah I think i've figured out picking out the pre flowers from my outdoor grows if that's what you mean, but i couldn't remember at what stage they actually start to show, so cheers for that bro. I'm with you on the messing with light period thing, I like to stress my plants as little as possible too- but in saying that it's good to know all options too. If i can fully enclose an outdoor area with cloth (which I can) I could possibly still do some outdoor stuff, but the missus is pretty keen for me not to grow outside anymore because of the whole illegal thing, so there is that lol. 

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14 hours ago, Justcozz said:

What the others said, but you can also top the plants early and put those cuts under 12’s, you will know which are males and females in about 2 weeks. They may even show sex before they root. You can continue to grow them, chop males, pollenate the females, whatever you want. Last run, that’s what I did, I was able to pollenate some females and make a few seeds without messing with the main grow. 

 

Cheers Justcozz, that's pretty cool idea actually- i hadn't thought of that either.

Are you saying that you could pollinate some female plants in your flower tent without messing with the other females in flower in the same tent, or am i reading this wrong? That's awesome if so and seems a good way to use some of the previously unwanted males.

 

 

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10 hours ago, ifish said:

Or just do fems this round and think about all the other stuff next time , after the tent is dailed in , and everything else is running smoothly etc : )

 

Cheers ifish mate, I'm thinking I will do this just so i can get started and to dial in as you say. I mentioned above but I have 5 sugarpunch seeds sitting here which i think will be perfect for the job.:smoke

 

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5 hours ago, lumatekfan said:

Hey there Halfroc,

did you consider the 12/12 method from No Mercy Supply?

I have to say that I don't have any experience yet, but I just started last weekend my first 12/12 from seed grow. After sprouting I planted the seeds in in 2l pots. As soon as they show sex, I will transplant them into bigger (8l) pots. I know this method is doubted a lot, but some who actually tried like it. In a few weeks I can say more.

happy weekend everyone!

Hey lumatekfan, happy weekend to you to mate. i've never heard of that method but i will look it up directly and check it out. Cheers for that mate:). Do you happen or plan to have a grow report or anything up so i can follow along?

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11 hours ago, lumatekfan said:

........did you consider the 12/12 method from No Mercy Supply?

.......I know this method is doubted a lot, but some who actually tried like it. In a few weeks I can say more.

i did exactly that Methode in my last runs,not knowing it´s "invented" by No Mercy Supply . works great!! when growing in a smal tent(80x80x160cm),there´s no much space for vegging.

image.thumb.png.55f8355b2918b1625f71213622d28f4d.png

with 12/12 from start the plants are ready with 70-90cm ...a excellent size for growing in a limited tent 

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15 hours ago, Halforc said:

Hey Hempyfan I've really got to thank you mate:grinning_respect:, as that is such a great breakdown for me and exactly what I needed. Thanks brother. 

I'm starting to get the feeling from all of these posts, that it would make sense for me to figure out some way to have a separate veg tent. It probably won't happen straight away but makes a lot of sense. If i was to do a veg tent, Do you happen to know if all non-LED lights emit the same amounts of heat or is there some a little bit cooler than others? Otherwise, i can look at a cheaper LED as gardenartus kindly advised.

My other question for you if you don't mind mate is to do with cloning. I have heard that it is a lot harder to clone once a plant is in flower, particularly towards the end of flower; is this true at all mate? 

  • Heat from light to light varies but initial issue is wattage then how the light vents or radiates its heat.  Then how you control the environment of the grow room.
    • Environment is the most important factor.  Much more than the light.
      • A 400w HPS in good environment will out perform a 1k hps with poor environment.
  • For veg tent.  You do not need powerful lights.  I do like LED and CFL lights for mothers.  CFL lighting for seedlings and veg.

Cloning from Late flower is more difficult if the plant is close to harvest as it is using up its stored energy and it will need to reveg this is not ideal because the plant will reveg.  This is very stressful for a plant and will typically make your plant produce less yield and quality.  Plus it will take a long time for this to happen.  However, I recommend doing it as least once so you learn from it.

  • Lets say you have to clone in flower.  In about a week the cuts will begin to root and due to stress will start to look like dr. seuse plants as it reveges.  When doing selections I do this to stress test the plant.  For me,  i want to see if the plant will hermie or not from the stress.
  • ok, so you took cuts in late flower, let that clone root, reveg fully and then let it veg for week or two longer.  Take cuttings when its fully in veg mode and has normal veg growth.  Those plants should do well.

Hope that helps and feel free to ask me anything.  Lots of good people here too!

Hempyfan!

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