Jump to content
  •     ai.php.gif instagramlogo.jpg

Sign in to follow this  
Misterdirt

Over watered?

Recommended Posts

Yo!

I transplanted a bunch of seedlings, around 4 weeks old, on Saturday and Sunday and I think three of the Pineapple Fields plants are drowning.

I'm going to transplant them today, into airy soil, but if anyone recognizes anything else here that I'm not picking up on, let's hear it!

Oddly, only three of the PF plants were affected, and not any of the Miss U Jack, Lemon Bubba, Peyote Pancakes, Blueberry Quintessas or Lemon Thai. Either PF is more sensitive (I wouldn't be surprised) or I somehow over did it on these three. The last pic shows a Peyote pancake next to one of the affected PFs.

Anyway, your 2 cents is welcome. I may not act on ever 2 cents, but who knows?

 

IMG_5645.jpg

IMG_5646.jpg

IMG_5647.jpg

IMG_5648.jpg

IMG_5649.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mr Dirt,

  I have had clippings and seedlings show leaves like that. If your using recycled soil it might be nute burn, that's been one of my problems in the past. Good luck with the grow

                  Stay Cool

                            Billman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, Billman said:

Mr Dirt,

  I have had clippings and seedlings show leaves like that. If your using recycled soil it might be nute burn, that's been one of my problems in the past. Good luck with the grow

                  Stay Cool

                            Billman

It is recycled soil. It's been a while since I've seen the effects of over-watering, so I thought I'd ask. Odd that it's only these 3 though, which makes me think I'm drowning roots.

I'll start with a fresh batch of promix and make a new soil for them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well the good thing is changing the soil will solve both the over watering and hot soil. Once they show growth again if you have bacto maybe use that first before feeding.

                   Again

                     Good Luck

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Recycled soil, just had the exact same problem myself, I got lazy.

Generally, I NEVER use anything recycled on seedlings, cuttings, clones, etc, it's just not worth the risk.   I don't even re-use my Octo Pot soil anymore, again, it's just not worth the risk.  Why risk a 10 oz grow on crappy soil you can't possibly know what's left in it?   $15 bucks of potting soil is cheap insurance. 

I've just switched back to organics, so this made me smile.  I had some Mother's Finest sprouts, and Jilly Bean clones, but it's winter, and I didn't have any fresh potting soil.  Sooooo, I dug out a pot from my last grow, broke it up, and voila!  It burnt the shit out of my plants, and killed all my sprouts.  Never again.

Went to Wal Mart, bought some fresh Jiffy Seed Starter soil, all is good, now.  What's most aggravating about re-used soil, is many times, it's TOO rich, and it stalls the crap out of your seedlings, time is money.  

This is exactly why I quit using coir, it's WAY too twitchy, locks up nutrients like a mofo, and growth rates in peat moss are twice what I get in coir.  

Best of luck to you, they'll be fine.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They're in new soil, in 1 gallon smart pots. Whatever the issue, I think it's been dealt with. I hope the rest of them don't develop anything.

Now to find my hand lens and start looking for preflowers.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is my take on recycled soil.

I dislike the term recycled soil.  I prefer to see that old soil as an input and not a main ingredient in soil program.  I dislike the term old soil as well.  I like to call it harvested soils and it needs a refreshing dose of life as it would get in nature but we want to optimize it. 

I see it as building soils rather than recycle or even looking at the harvested soils as a negative.  It is a in a state that we designed it to be in.  Once we understand this, this has the capacity to be an important input.

  • It is my general belief that one should not take on reusing soils unless they understand soil, plant nutrition, plant physiology and environment above and below ground factors.
  • Otherwise, you are truly trying to navigate problematic waters and one change in those factors from one grow to another can throw the entire mix out of whack causing problems.  This means, even when successfully used before when one of those factors change and this does not mean those changing factors are easy to spot, that crop risks problems to failure.
  • It is not easily copied and pasted due to those aspects/factors.

 

All that said, this is a base soil I recommend starting at if refreshing/starting a soil program.  What I call a soil program and for me, I am as dedicated to that as I am to the plants and in so doing I have as much if not more pride in my soils than my plants and that is a bold statement.

Now the following is merely a general guide.  The real dialing in comes from good record keeping of your grow and adapting as best makes sense for your grow (pretty much never ends).  This is in part why I say it is valuable to understand the growing aspects that I do when doing such a soil program.

  • For me, once getting the nutrition down, getting a feel for the right texture is what enabled me to make highly effective soils.
  • Do not get so caught up in the ingredients, you can use different inputs if they serve the same purpose.
  • Soil temps should not be cold or too hot. 
    • If you mix together and the soil heats up,
      • Soil life is kicking off and we need for this heat to stabilize at a normal temperature.  
        • Do not use until you are able to put your hand in the soil and it feel fresh and alive and not hot or warm.
        • Too hot temperature wise will hurt your roots and root hairs and is one of the biggest issues newer people will encounter. 

General Guide.

  1.  Last Soil/Harvested soil.
    • Best practice is to have this soil tested as to see the breakdown of available nutrients and then basing your input ratios on that information. 
    • Generic 1/3 to 1/2 Volume.
    • If it has biochar you do not need to add so much.
    • If soil was a bit hot last time.
      • Add some powdered un charged  biochar.
        • A like sprinkled over the top of the soil, mix re sprinkled again, mix resprinkle again and mix again.
          • This uncharged biochar should now have an even distribution that will work to remove and then benefit from the extra nitrogen in the soil.
  2. Two to three types of compost.  Mushroom/decomposer compost should be one type or similar.
    • 1/4 by volume
  3. Filler Media.  (no or very low nutrition.) 
    • 20-30%
  4. Drainage / anti compaction.
    • 5 to 15% per volume    
  5.  Worm Castings
    • 10-15 percent.
    • Be careful going over 20+ percent.
  6. Bacteria/Fungus inputs.
    • Myco,
    • Bacto,
    • IMO's.
    • Compost teas.  (more for maintaining, can be used to charge biochar.)
      • Do not use if you have had to use uncharged biochar as to let the uncharged bio char work to remove excess nitrogen from previous grow if necessary
        • unique situation.
        • Good to use after 2 weeks of add uncharged biochar. 
      • I liked to spray the soil, mix, spray and mix, repeat 3 times minimum.
        • This helps unsure a good coating with no filtration affect of the compost teas as it drains.
        • Helps jump start the soil life. 
  7. Stabilizer & Mineralization - Rock Dust/Azomite/Green sand. 
    • This is a long term aspect and only needed for a soil program.
    • I liked them all.  I used Azomite in conjunction with rock dust and green sand.
    • Azomite has a wide spectrum of macro type of inputs but is long term and is not directly available to the plant and is truly food for the soil life that will make it usable for the plant over time.
    • I would sprinkle over the top soil, mix, repeat 3 times to ensure a good coating with the soil.   We do not want pockets.
  8. Calcium and magnesium.
    • Use as directed and I added as mineralization inputs, sprinkle on top and mix, repeat three times.
    • In early stages of beginning soil program I recommend having a soil  test done as to determine the optimum amount of calcium to add. 
      • This is a very important to understand and will be different for each grower but identifying this sweet spot has signficant rewards.
  9. Kelp, use a directed
    • I added kelp via compost teas but if not an ingredient for you, this is good for the growth period and help the plant with hormone production and similar.

 

More information

  • Compost.  Compost serves many purposes.  Not all compost are needed for one time use gardens but I find a mix of the following favoring a decomposing compost such as mushroom compost is most effective at maintaining a long term soil program.
    • Mushroom Compost.
      • This is to help break down old roots and whatnot and making that into foods for soil life and the plant.
    • Ocean Compost
      • This is to help with maintaining a good soil life, micro minerals and supporting the plant. 
    • Forest and/or leaf composts.
      • This is to add micro minerals, fungi and bacteria foods for soil life and to the plant.
      • If you use lots of forest compost
        • Add more bacteria.  Cannabis prefers more bacteria than fungus so keep the ratio bacteria positive.  Just wing it but add in bacteria if in powder form as you would recommend doses plus 1/4 to 1/3 depending on how rich and much the fungal based compost represents your compost total input of the soil.
          • Say your total compost is 1/4 of your soil volume and this volume consist of several types of compost but mostly favors the fungal type then add recommend dose of bacteria and up to a half dose of more than recommendation.
            • Using more bacteria than recommend will not harm but their is a point of no return.  We are ensuring we saturate that point of no return on the bacteria to ensure a general optimum practice.
  • Filler media & Drainage.
    • Coco,
      • Birds nest/stringy type will be good at wicking
      • Regular brick coco is a good general filler, 
      • I like to use a mix of these types. 
    • Peat
      • Can be acidic and affect PH, depending on other factors this can be a positive or negative aspect often unique to each grower.  
      • Peat will also compact overtime and thus I do not like peat as an only ingredient in filler media.
    • Anti compaction
      • Bio Char, will talk more on this later but this also serves as an anti compaction filler media.
    • Rock/RiceHulls
      • Perlite very good input for keeping the media from compacting.
        • Do not get the smallest size but a medium grade, generally speaking.
        • Biggest plant I ever grew was in nothing but perlite.
          • I do not recommend doing that unless you want to test your plant nutrition knowledge and skills. 
      • Vermiculite is also a good input but often used in conjunction with Perlite. 
        • I generally did not use vermiculite but I have found its best noticeable benefit was in medias used for young plants as it works as a stabilizer than more of a drainage benefit.
        • I stopped using Vermiculite when I started using biochar in different sizes.
      • Rice Hulls, These are good but will break down over time and compact.  Often those who choose rice hulls do it due to a belief aspect.  If this is true for you, please see below for my suggested addition.  If you have any additions to that list please post them or let me know and I will edit in.
        • Those who use rice hulls will need to add more drainage/anti filler than others.
          • Biochar (charged) in varied sizes is a good addition/replacement.
            • This offers in addition to drainage it also offers homes for soil life which is even more important in a vegan style of grow.
    • Biochar (charged).  Biochar is a must have for reusing soils.
      • I recommend using various sizes of biochar.
      • Biochar needs to be charged which is to infuse it with a nitrogen.
        • If not charged, the biochar will soak up nearby nutrients in the surrounding soil until it is saturated.  This effectively takes away available nutrition to the plant and often at a stage that the plant cannot afford a deficiency and thus effects yield and potentially quality.
        • To Charge - Soak in compost or nitrogen, or growth nutrient or an even nutrient more suited for mothers.
      • Biochar offers shelter for microbes and soil life which if done correctly will help repopulate your new soils with good soil life.
  • Worm Castings - This is in part the magic of the new soil.
    • Full of soil life
    • Works against pests
    • Castings are seedling friendly and can be added by top feeding to better help maintain soil environment and soil life later in plants development and throughout its life time.
    • I like 10 to 15% of the soil volume to be castings in the mix and an additional light top dressing with compost on top of the castings.
      • I would top dress at end of growth period prior to flip.
        • cover with compost.
      • I would top dress again once the plants began to set and transition period has ended.
        • Adding in, I also add Phosphorus leaning guano or other P and K inputs.
        • cover with compost.

For way to much information if you want more:  

 

Hope that helps,

Hempyfan,

Jah Bless!

  • Thanks 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"you are truly trying to navigate problematic waters and one change in those factors from one grow to another can throw the entire mix out of whack"

Exactly, what great information, thanks.  

I think the law of diminishing returns is involved, i.e., how much do you gain reusing soil?   In a major grow op, you'd have the means to test it, tweak it, etc.   Under 10 plants, hardly worth the effort. 

Don't get me wrong, I NEVER throw used soil away, it goes on my garden outside, which, of course, is awesome for my tomatoes and cukes.  

While I don't disagree with the PH between coir and peat, my experience has been exactly the opposite, coir is a beast to get PH right, damn near impossible once it's been used.  Peat on the other hand, though slightly acidic initially, most mixes offset that with lime.  But the kicker is the growth rate is MUCH better in peat.  I solve the compaction problem just adding 30-40% perlite, works great, which is also what Octopots recommend.

I began my first grow with Peat semi super soil, switched to coir specifically because it was reusable, moved to hempy buckets, tried aeroponics ( unbelievable growth with a maintenance nightmare!), DWC, wicking systems, and came back to peat, lol.  It's cheap and forgiving.  Love DWC, super fast, super easy, but the weed just doesn't taste as good as soil.  With the exception of the Octopots, I'm back to what I used in my first grow.  What comes around, goes around I guess.  Needs sayin', nothing tastes as good as guano grown weed.

Peace, all.  

  

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will be reusing the rest of the soil I have, but not on Cannabis. It's way too valuable a crop.

I also figured out why only these three plants were affected --

Almost all my soil was from female plants I had flowered out and stopped giving nutrients about 4 weeks before harvest. A small amount was from a few clones that I had decided not to keep. That was the shit that was too hot. I used it to fill in a small amount of the pots because I had run out of the soil mix I was using.

There could be pockets of hotter soil in the rest. Fuck it, I'm putting the former Cannabis soil out in a raised bed garden this spring.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think over watering is/was the issue here, but the new leaves seem fine so i'd leave them in there.  This happens to my cuttings sometimes when they have trouble catching on, but soon as they do they're fine. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/11/2020 at 4:51 PM, dieseldog381 said:

Recycled soil, just had the exact same problem myself, I got lazy.

Generally, I NEVER use anything recycled on seedlings, cuttings, clones, etc, it's just not worth the risk.   I don't even re-use my Octo Pot soil anymore, again, it's just not worth the risk.  Why risk a 10 oz grow on crappy soil you can't possibly know what's left in it?   $15 bucks of potting soil is cheap insurance. 

I have to disagree. Frankly all the soil we use is reused, since soil itsself is older than dirt. The soil in the new bag isn't new, it's just old soil that has been treated and put into a new fancy bag.

I recycle my soil for many rounds now and the harvests seem to get better the more cycles i complete!  

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No disagreement here at all, but you guys are both master growers, of course you CAN reuse soil. 

My point was, based on my experience, and the posts of many others, problems arise using re-used soil, generally because it’s too hot, mostly with seedlings.     Therefore, I choose to use new potting soil on seeds and clones, as my experience has been less twitchy.   Larger plants are a different matter.  

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am by no means a master grower, but thanks for the love Dieseldog381! In my humble opinion problems only arise when growing organic (when reusing soil) because what goes on inside the pot is a mystery. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Misterdirt....I did the same thing on this run with the same results.  I flushed my old medium with tap water and let it dry out.  Mixed it 50/50 with new and had very bad results.  Not worth saving $20.00 worth of promix just to repot in to new.  Lesson learned :) 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting topic.   Re used soil is seldom a problem in my garden, but bottle it up in a pot is a different matter.   Seems my best reuse was just mixing old/new 50/50.   My other issue is space and weather.  Like I said, if I was running 10 Octopot s, cost is more a factor than two.   

When I was running coir, I’d literally put the spent pot in my bathtub under the faucet and rinse it for thirty minutes,  then start over with additions.  I started coir specifically because it’s reusable, but I found coir to be a real pain in the arse after awhile.   

Seems key is having an idea what you’re starting with.   I learned long ago, when leaves start burning, or a deficiency, and you don’t know which, START OVER, ie, rinse the heck out of the medium first, THEN add back, then I’m not guessing.   Organics are generally more forgiving, but I’ve messed those up, too, lol.    Hey, if a little bit’s good, mores better, right?    Lol.    

 

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm done with reused soil for weed. It will feed my tomatoes in another couple of months. I was planning a raised bed and the amount of used canna soil I have should take care of a lot of the raising.

For a "weed," reefer is amazingly finicky. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, dieseldog381 said:

seems key is having an idea what you’re starting with.   I learned long ago, when leaves start burning, or a deficiency, and you don’t know which, START OVER, ie, rinse the heck out of the medium first, THEN add back, then I’m not guessing.   Organics are generally more forgiving, but I’ve messed those up, too, lol.    Hey, if a little bit’s good, mores better, right?    Lol.    

When growing mineral, reusing soil should no be an issue, simply because the medium functions merely as a tool that holds moist. Its not about being on a tight budget, but it is convenient when you can simply plant the new cuttings into the old pots!  And it works, i can prove it if you don't believe me. Just follow my current topic to see reused soil live in action! 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Hill-Billy said:

@Misterdirt....I did the same thing on this run with the same results.  I flushed my old medium with tap water and let it dry out.  Mixed it 50/50 with new and had very bad results.  Not worth saving $20.00 worth of promix just to repot in to new.  Lesson learned :) 

I am afraid you drew the wrong conclusion, because back in the days when there weren't stores where they sell soil for cannabis, people grew and smoked pot! And please don't take my word for it, but simply press the button in my autograph and see it for yourself: reused soil works like a charm! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Hamme Hydro said:

I am afraid you drew the wrong conclusion, because back in the days when there weren't stores where they sell soil for cannabis, people grew and smoked pot! And please don't take my word for it, but simply press the button in my autograph and see it for yourself: reused soil works like a charm! 

Could be several different things that cause issues or success of reusing your grow medium.  I have had great success reusing organic soil and I still use organic sometimes.  I have never had any...not one problem since I switched to Promix,  perlite, TTF for nutes and RO water.  This run here I reused the promix/perlite after flushing it with water.  Mixed it 50/50 with new and had a problem.  Not hard to figure out what caused the problem.    

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Misterdirt glad u figure it out I peeked because of ur title. my plants did that because of lack of proper nutes after they used up the nutes in the initial charge of the mix ran out. as soon as they got proper nutes all started to change as u can see in my pictures. from the brink of death to healthy and flourishing.  i did do some over watering to others but the symptoms were different = diagnosed via the sick plant charts/411. 

old soil reuse has been a long time thing for many organic dudes to many years to count. yet, since those folks know their mediums and have experience on how to make adjustment they have no issues. The comment of know what's left basically is the reality.  I also thought about the ability to reuse coco coir and saw threads on it by others. i would think if washed clean it should be easier to use as it's now quite inert for the most part. note : comments based on experience welcomed . 

i had a clone i planted in a pot recently. veg was yellowing badly but it made roots. potted up no problem in biobizz.  i took it out to compare and re-watered it by accident. so this was literally over watered right off the bat before any symptoms of such showed obviously. I monitored it and all the veg started to return to proper color. then i acted on the idea the roots needed more air so i squeezed the pot to break up the medium some. well guess what / after doing that shit the p;ant started to droop. i was like wtf. = moral to the story is if things are going better leave the plant alone. period   this plant was put under MH 250 yesterday so it will live or die. i don't need it but i also give my plants their just due at survival, i don't just trash them.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Sacred Plant Warrior said:

 I also thought about the ability to reuse coco coir and saw threads on it by others. i would think if washed clean it should be easier to use as it's now quite inert for the most part. note : comments based on experience welcomed . 

Just tear out the clod, loosen up the coco and water new plants with Ec 1.3 and pH 5.5 until you have drain. Then wait for a week before watering again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Hamme Hydro said:

Just tear out the clod, loosen up the coco and water new plants with Ec 1.3 and pH 5.5 until you have drain. Then wait for a week before watering again.

how would i wait for a week in coco, since i don't want coco dry out ?granted pot size dependent. i'll run 2 or 3 gal pots max. 

i took out the root ball today of a plant remnant i was giving a chance. but it was basically dead. I HAD CUT DOWN THE RATTY PLANT TO TRY BUT NOTICED THAT ROOTS hadn't even progressed to the new soil so i'm reusing that and tossed the rest in the trash. i don't have a garden yet. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Hamme Hydro said:

I assumed you use large containers, please don't make an ass out of me! :D

no dude i have much respect for u. i appreciate the help. :wub:

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...