BluChem

[Indicalicious 1,061]

Thankfully we dont have such unclearness with all the other strains worldwide like skunk, afghan, ak, bb, ss, gsc, ogk or many, many others

Seems to be a very confusing one in this special case of bc for someone here?

thanks @santero for clearing up again

Edited July 20, 2021 by santero
well, the only one actually confused (about his OWN work) was you, mate ... stay positive, everybody ... this has already been resolved by itself.

[wisecalyx 897]

@Indicalicious

Not trying to be crass but your nomenclature is wrong. 

(Blue Chem F1 x Bluberry) x Blue Chem F2 =  BX1 (regardless of the generational difference between the outcross and the backcross)

Each sibbling cross after that initial backcross is called an incross. (F2 F3 ect the F stands for filial which suggests a hybrid bred pure, your Blue Chem is not pure because of the outcross and the later backcross). Your first sibling incross would be denoted BX1 IX1 (incross 1, incross 2 and incross 3 ect) definitely not Blue Chem F2, F3 and F4 (remember, you have an outcross and back cross to account for, especially if you want to fully represent what you have done. 

I get what you're trying to say but I hope with what I outlined you understand where you misunderstand in your notion. 

Filial will always denote a pure (line bred) to namesake genetic line.

[wisecalyx 897]

16 hours ago, Indicalicious said:

Thankfully we dont have such unclearness with all the other strains worldwide like skunk, afghan, ak, bb, ss, gsc, ogk or many, many others

Seems to be a very confusing one in this special case of bc for someone here?

thanks @santero for clearing up again

No if the skunk, ak, bb, ss, gsc, ogk and many many others were outcrossed then its not the same... like yours. If its backcrossed, then its a backcross and still not the same just like yours. Sibling crosses after a backcross are not filial gens, they are incrosses. Your blue chem is not a BX1 F4 its a BX1 ix3.

The confusion is only on your end. 

Again not trying to be crass. Just am a stickler for proper lineage and knowing exactly what I have and it seems like pulling teeth trying to get you to stop calling what you have Blue Chem F4. 

 

[wisecalyx 897]

21 hours ago, santero said:

it seems there is some confusion about the (former called)
"berry dawg"-seedline, but things are easy to oversee, imho.
indicalicious has been very open and clear about what he did.
(but he may have confused his line for a pure "blue chem".)

the initial cross of "(blue chem x blueberry)"-female and "blue chem f2"-male was NOT a "blue chem f1" ...
THAT was a "blue chem bx" (because of the blueberry-bridge in there ) from there it was incrossed to f2,
f3 and now made into f4. there was no reason to rename it ... it IS "berrydawg"  ... no more and no less (!!!)

zanzibar = blue chem f2 (pure)
indicalicious = blue chem BX1 f4

both lines are made with passion and legitness, if you ask me.
calling them both the same is wrong and comparing them is also
futile, cuz they are different from the get go = not need to compete.

hope this clears it up  
best vibes to everybody.

Wouldn't the outcross be berry dawg? Why not call it what it is, a blue chem bx1 ix3 ?

[santero 9,397]

you are right about the f-gens and ix-nomenclature.
sadly almost nothing is really pure today anymore, so
the speech has indeed shifted a tiny bit.

remember in the eighties when incrossing was called "selfing"? (f.e. by nevil)
then they started to use the term for feminized seeds a decade later or so.

i have to admit that i consider an ix3 basically the same as a f4.
altho you are right, there is indeed a difference. even if nowadays
people usually call their ix1 an f2 already (which does not really
hurt my feelings a lot, as long as i know how it came together).

_______________________

anyhoo ...
whatever indicalicious wants to call his "bc bx1 ix3" is 100% his descision.
but i think we agree that calling it "blue chem" would (at least) be inacurate.
calling it "berrydawg" would be a nice idea, imo, since the name does really
fit his beautiful creation.

[wisecalyx 897]

On 5/18/2021 at 8:23 AM, santero said:

you are right about the f-gens and ix-nomenclature.
sadly almost nothing is really pure today anymore, so
the speech has indeed shifted a tiny bit.

remember in the eighties when incrossing was called "selfing"? (f.e. by nevil)
then they started to use the term for feminized seeds a decade later or so.

i have to admit that i consider an ix3 basically the same as a f4.
altho you are right, there is indeed a difference. even if nowadays
people usually call their ix1 an f2 already (which does not really
hurt my feelings a lot, as long as i know how it came together).

_______________________

anyhoo ...
whatever indicalicious wants to call his "bc bx1 ix3" is 100% his descision.
but i think we agree that calling it "blue chem" would (at least) be inacurate.
calling it "berrydawg" would be a nice idea, imo, since the name does really
fit his beautiful creation.

I understand your comment on pure but I guess I mean of an established pedigree, a namesake. The difference between incrossing a pedigree and outcrossing to backcross are emensly different and to establish that in the most concise way helps us all out. 

But isn't blue chem a parent to berry dawg? I ask because calling it berry dawg neglects the backcross to blue chem (a parent to berry dawg). 

Not trying to be a nut buster, my attention to detail is why you love me and I want to be corrected if I'm wrong. Knowledge is power. 

 

[santero 9,397]

there have been bx's in the past with a new name, so it's not too tragic to do that
(and hell yes ! ... i love you a lot, broski, big up !!)



 

[Indicalicious 1,061]

I respect all its parents and its breeders and never call anything that is not my as my

call it berrydawg or bluechem or berrychem bx1 s2 xy its up to you and not very important for me

 

I has stopped to work on this line a few years ago,

maybe I will use it for new crosses but there too much more interesting and promising projects in my hand

 

but thanks for keeping things clear

 

best vibes

 

Edited July 20, 2021 by santero
it was important enough to you to change the name as soon as zanzi brought up his purer line ... why did you do that then? ... mate, this is getting ridicoluos, let's just stop !

[Indicalicious 1,061]

On 5/17/2021 at 5:34 AM, wisecalyx said:

No if the skunk, ak, bb, ss, gsc, ogk and many many others were outcrossed then its not the same... like yours. If its backcrossed, then its a backcross and still not the same just like yours. Sibling crosses after a backcross are not filial gens, they are incrosses. Your blue chem is not a BX1 F4 its a BX1 ix3.

The confusion is only on your end. 

Again not trying to be crass. Just am a stickler for proper lineage and knowing exactly what I have and it seems like pulling teeth trying to get you to stop calling what you have Blue Chem F4. 

 

I hope you or Zanzi discuss this with the same enthusiasm like here with other seedbanks

Its not all about that I confuse here someone because of naming something ...

If I have this power one day I will be the master of  the universe

 

best vibes

[santero 9,397]

now we are just fighting over names / meanings, haha ... good thing we are all friends

because to me a regular "filial generation" is -> "sibling to sibling from the same generation
of the same line" ... f.e. theoretical F2 female x theoretical F2 male = theoretical F3-offspring.

and i personally use the term "filial incross" as -> "sibling to sibling from different generations
of the same line" ... f.e. theoretical F2 female crossed to theoretical F1 male = theoretical 'IX'.
(actually, the term "incross" is invented into botanics anyhow, so we can use it, as we see fit.)
 

[Indicalicious 1,061]

@santero personal thoughts are so important.

Maybe @Zanzibar could tell us his thoughts as the recreator of "BluChem"

But im tired of such discussions cause Im doing this for love to the best plant on planet 

Peace 

Edited November 20, 2021 by santero
the rename happened for money, bro .. not out of love, lol.

[wisecalyx 897]

On 6/13/2021 at 1:22 PM, santero said:

now we are just fighting over names / meanings, haha ... good thing we are all friends

because to me a regular "filial generation" is -> "sibling to sibling from the same generation
of the same line" ... f.e. theoretical F2 female x theoretical F2 male = theoretical F3-offspring.

and i personally use the term "filial incross" as -> "sibling to sibling from different generations
of the same line" ... f.e. theoretical F2 female crossed to theoretical F1 male = theoretical 'IX'.
(actually, the term "incross" is invented into botanics anyhow, so we can use it, as we see fit.)
 

The definition for incross in the dictionary "a mating between organisms that are both homozygous for the same allele" If we are using the Filial denote from a P1 perspective and the required genetic diversity are present to obtain a true F1 from the P1 parentage then by definition an incross cannot be filial due to homozygous allels? At what point does filial recombination become homozygous? I ask because I truly want to know. These understandings are due to research and I truly want to know if the information have read, studied and thought understood, falter. 

[Indicalicious 1,061]

Thanks god for the internet and easy to get ressources

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zygosity

https://scholar.google.de/scholar?hl=de&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=homozygous+hemp&btnG=

Hope it helps you to understand.

[santero 9,397]

Quote

organisms that are both homozygous for the same allele

good luck finding that in cannabis (especially nowadays)

since cannabis has so little lines that are actually bred stable,
a discussion over the nomeclatures is somewhat futile, since
it stays only theoretical. in praxis almost all lines are mush-ups.

it's important for seedmakers nowadays to speak openly about
what they did, so others can see themselves whats up with the
seeds they recieve.

________________________________


this whole discussion just started because "berry dawg" (a blue chem bx)
was re-named to "blue chem" after the release of the blue chem f2-originals.
the reasons are not important, but important is to stay honest. luckily we are
all honest, so things could get cleared up and corrected again ... thank you !

so, to bring this back to topic and state the relevant facts:

1.
zanzibar's "blue chem f2" is the pure reproduction 
of esko's original blue chem-freebie (1st release).

2.
indicalicious line is a blue chem "bx" (starting with a "blueberry bx"
female hit by a blue chem f2-male, and then put to each other a few
times).

both lines will make growers very happy, i have no doubt about it (!)
enjoy your smokes, everybody

[wisecalyx 897]

1 hour ago, Indicalicious said:

Thanks god for the internet and easy to get ressources

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zygosity

https://scholar.google.de/scholar?hl=de&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=homozygous+hemp&btnG=

Hope it helps you to understand.

I know what homozygous means, I was speaking at which point do filial generations become homozygous for alleles since there has yet to be a great bottleneck in genetics especially before recombination (it was a rhetorical question) also google is great, but your links really have nothing to do with what was being said and I'm not certain why you took the time to make a point? I'm not the one who mislabled then argued the mislable. I mean if you wanted to make a point you could have taken the time to research the proper question. I digress. 

P.s. make sure you represent your next work correctly without being condescending about YOUR MISTAKE in attention to detail and you won't have to deal with people calling you out, especially when most here are familiar with the parentage. It's like when Melvan of Melvanetics said fuck you to previouse breeders work and starts over filial generations when they reach her hands. Prime example, the NL F3 she distributes is really F6 or F7 but fails to include previous generations because of "their work." To me ego, maliciousness or just ignorence make no difference but these "mistakes" or relables kick up sediment in already muddy waters. I have nothing against you personally and have always enjoyed you so lets go back to that. Just please stop with the condescending stuff, I didn't make your claims.

[wisecalyx 897]

2 hours ago, Indicalicious said:

Thanks god for the internet and easy to get ressources

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zygosity

https://scholar.google.de/scholar?hl=de&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=homozygous+hemp&btnG=

Hope it helps you to understand.

Also I'm sorry I argued the incross nomenclature, if we are being HONEST I was offended in the mislable to begin with. So if you can forgive me and my compulsive need for proper lineage depictions I can be cool too. Sorry brother.

[Indicalicious 1,061]

On 6/16/2021 at 12:17 PM, wisecalyx said:

It's like when Melvan of Melvanetics said fuck you to previouse breeders work

Thats all Ive sayed over many posts and thats why it was called bluechem back again, understand bro?

@Zanzibar whats up?

Did we need here any discussions anymore then only pressing some like buttons, its your thread?

@wisecalyx hope you could sleep much better now and all is like youre life needs to be and maybe one day I wake up and name my crosses like you want, I can call anything like I want.

Ive renamed the bluechem on sh specially for you/zanzibar back to berry dawg (special $an$i edition )
 

best vibes and keep calm its a hot summer

Edited November 30, 2021 by santero
NOPE ... i talked to ken and then he changed it back, after he saw what u tried ... all of this makes your efforts just look bad, imho :( ... *auto-suicide*

[santero 9,397]

'berrydawg' was never a pure blue chem, so the renaming was not necessary.
the rea$on for the rename became clear to everyone in the meantime as well.

 

[wisecalyx 897]

On 6/23/2021 at 4:33 PM, Indicalicious said:

Thats all Ive sayed over many posts and thats why it was called bluechem back again, understand bro?

@Zanzibar whats up?

Did we need here any discussions anymore then only pressing some like buttons, its your thread?

@wisecalyx hope you could sleep much better now and all is like youre life needs to be and maybe one day I wake up and name my crosses like you want, I can call anything like I want.

Ive renamed the bluechem on sh specially for you/zanzibar back to berry dawg (special $an$i edition )
 

best vibes and keep calm its a hot summer

People like you spread misinformation muddying up the gene pool and are whats wrong with current cannabis.  Nomenclature means something you pompus ass. You can't even keep your misinformation straight, I wouldn't trust your gear if you can't follow lineage let alone notate it. 

 

I'm out of here. SAN, I have your proton mail so I'll reach out. 

Anybody who is worthwhile here knows how to get ahold of me if they need me. 

On to better. 

Peace

*crickets*

[Indicalicious 1,061]

kind words from you.

it was for me never about to have a clear line, but if it comes up to bother me with pms or any other ways, just to sell a poor reproduction,

then to be friendly is over for me.

 

best vibes

Edited July 21, 2021 by santero
the "poor repro" is sanctioned by esko himself, mate ... your line was not pure (even if you decided to lie about it). who is the culprit? easy to see in my book.

[santero 9,397]

enough of this ...

since we all know know what was renamed
and why = this discussion has found its end.



@Indicalicious
there is not many people here left and the few that stayed are bored with this.
why risk penalties for something that is so obviously not in you favor, pls chill.

you claimed that your blue chem is pure, which is not, these are facts ...
changing the name from berry dawg to blue chem does not make it purer.
and that you had to rename it back, after you were busted is also your own
fault.

since then there is this "diss-cussion" here going on 
this does not help anyone. please just move on, mate.
 

[Indicalicious 1,061]

just move on your mind mate, this board is dead like fear the walking last 3? dead season 999

we all are sannie missing here now since many years, its his board

but it seems he decided to leaves (t)his board alone and us!

and any words of a kind "moderator" could never change this feeling 

so chill and move you on mate

go back to your roots and live your life

think write speak grow smoke live fuck what you want but always with love

 

best vibes and stay save

 

 

[santero 9,397]

pfff  we all have moved on since 1/2 year, dude.
there indeed is no need to revive this cleared issue.